Hi All

I have a 2011 4.4 TDV8 70k, during my ownership it’s always had mechanical sympathy, warm up cool down, regular service etc.

During steady driving it’s absolutely fine on the smaller turbo, any harder throttle when the big turbo spools it bellows blue smoke suggesting this turbo is on its way out. Obviously I want to get this changed before it completely fails to avoid any further damage.

Does anyone have turbo part numbers or experience of changing the turbo themselves?

Thanks

Use the search function on here and type ' turbo drain mod '. Could be your issue. 2015 4.4 AB
GSXR 1000 K5
R1 1998

Thanks, saw that shortly after posting👍

Sounds like that should cure it.

Mike

Mikee,
Push the pedal to the metal and let her rip down the asphalt - she loves that once in awhile. No more smoking.

Nino, 2012 TDV8 Black Edition
2000 Disco. TD5
1975 series III

Mike, spool up the secondary turbo, above 2500 rpm regularly, and it should see the smoke disappear, mine smokes once in a while when it’s not had the 2nd turbo used and had been switched on and off a few times without going anywhere. There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

The post is already old, but the topic is actual as always. I am comming from Germany and have just purchased a RR 3,6 TDV8. In Germany we have lot´s of cars with broken engines available. About 15% of the cars in the advertisements for used cars have an engine failure. We are also driving high speed with the FF. Going up to 200 kph is very usual for the new SUVs, as big Porsche, BMW X5, X6, X7, Q series, they all run up to 250 kph on our Autobahn.

I investigated a lot before purchasing a used TDV8 with 215.000 km.- There is a number of turbo re-manufacturing shops in Germany with very detailled technical describtions about the failing of turbos. BTW, I am a mechanical engineer/ Dipl.Ing.

First of all, the main idea is, that a turbo by itself has no wear. If a turbo is going to fail, it must be via external influence. The turbo has an oil lubrication bearing without metal surfaces touching. Let me summerize their reasons for turbo failures in my words:

- Bad, old or not enough oil reaching the turbo bearing. Or oil with high percentage of diesel due to particle filter/ DPF cleaning procedure. Causes lack of lubrication in the turbo oil bearing. The design of this bearing is a technology by itself. Please use Google for more info. Would take pages to describe here.

- The RR has had some high speed driving earlier when the engine was shut of in very hot condition. The pipe getting the oil to the turbo started building up some oil crust and the pipe diameter shrinks. Not enough oil getting to the bearing, same problem.

- The piping getting the oil back into the engine has the same issue. The diameter shrinks to the same issue. Very hot engine stopped immedeatly. The oil pump stops working when the engine is shut off. Oil remains in the pipe and gets hot up to several hundred degrees and starts gluing inside the oil pipe. This pipe is like "remeber only" part. The burned oil in that pipe remains there with a sticky behaviour. Next time driving the car at high speeds and stopping the car, some procedure. Nearly no chance to get that oil pipe clean again. At a certain time, the backflowing of the oil into the engine is blocked. >> The oil can´t move back. The turbo with the suction force starts sucking the oil into the cooler. - I have read about RR owners loosing oil, but there was no sign of oil at the engine. The missing oil went into the air cooler. Even too much oil in that air cooler getting than into the cylinder can cause a massive engine break down, as the oil is not compressable.

- The particle filter is blocked: There is a backpressure from the exhaust system towards the turbo. The turbo wheel get´s an additional sideforce, for which it is not designed. The oil bearing can not support this additional sideforce. The turbo bearing will seize up. When the turbo bearing seizes up, it will stop rotating immedeatly.

- The nut, that holds the turbine wheel will get loose, as it gets the rotational moment in the wrong direction. (When the turbo starts rotating, the nut will get the moment to get tighter - opposite effect when the turbo stops hardly) The nut falls off and might get into the turbo blades,... further on into the engine and causes multible defects on valves, pistons, cylinder walls,...

- Parts of the EGR valves break off due to wear. They move via turbo into the engine, passing valves,... causing multiple engine defects.

When a turbo seized up due to oil problems, the turbo failure is only the effect, not the root cause. Hopefully the garage replaces the oil pipes as well and takes care of the DPF. Otherwise the new turbos will fail again. Replacing turbos without looking for the root cause just brings the customer back into the garage...

My summerize for potential engine defects with turbos involved:

- Oil and oil piping
- DPF and exhaust back-pressure
- EGR valves

My personal advice to take care of our FF TDV8:

- Check driving behaviour
- Good oil maintenance, oil cleaning of the system
- Check oil film in the aircooler regulary
- Take care of DPF before it causes engine problems (mine does not have one, only diesel cat)
- Replace, block, remap the EGR


Take care of your FF and your TDV8 engines!

Regards from Germany

Markus

Thanks Markus, an interesting read. My 2008 tdv8 L322 now has 296,000km on the original turbos. The turbos are disabled, the Australian version has no DPF, it’s had an oil change every 10,000km, and in recent years I’ve used an engine oil flush when doing an oil change. Hopefully all these help with turbo life.

The motor runs very nicely. ______________________________
Vogue tdv8 08MY poverty pack - wow

I guess you wanted to say that the EGR valves are disabled? How did you do? By blanking plate? I hope, treating the engine as you also do, that thing can run up to 500.00 km. So do the german taxicab, that are often standard Mercedes 200 or 220 cdi diesel cars. Good luck!

Haha yes. EGRs are disabled. I have unplugged them and plugged in emulators to keep the ECU happy. But I think a remap to disable them may be a better solution. ______________________________
Vogue tdv8 08MY poverty pack - wow

When changing the oil on both the 3.6 and the 4.4, don't forget to remove the rear drain plug to drain the turbo drain mini-sump, used for both turbos on the 3.6 and the secondary on the 4.4 so that it doesn't eventually fill with sludge which can block the turbo drain(s).

Gday Graeme
A good point.
I use a manual vacuum pump (via dipstick tube) for oil changes these days. This seems to be quicker, cleaner and more effective than dropping the oil. Barely a dribble of oil remains when I remove the rear sump plug. ______________________________
Vogue tdv8 08MY poverty pack - wow

With the blame partially being attributed to "driving style" and particularly warm up and cool down cycles, what would people advise in terms of max revs before reaching operating temp?

My 3.6 doesn't really seem to get hot under the bonnet even after 30 or 40 miles. Frozen washer pipes alerted me to that on a cold winters commute.

Cam-Tech-Craig wrote:

Cooling down periods are subject to the drive cycle the engine has just been through. The high end BIG turbo Jap stuff all have "turbo timers" which are linked to an internal temp gauge, so leave the engine running when you exit the car and lock it for a pre determined amount of time... Usually around a minute on a couple of race spec Evo's i know of...

Markus_HH wrote:

The post is already old, but the topic is actual as always. I am comming from Germany and have just purchased a RR 3,6 TDV8. In Germany we have lot´s of cars with broken engines available. About 15% of the cars in the advertisements for used cars have an engine failure. We are also driving high speed with the FF. Going up to 200 kph is very usual for the new SUVs, as big Porsche, BMW X5, X6, X7, Q series, they all run up to 250 kph on our Autobahn.

I investigated a lot before purchasing a used TDV8 with 215.000 km.- There is a number of turbo re-manufacturing shops in Germany with very detailled technical describtions about the failing of turbos. BTW, I am a mechanical engineer/ Dipl.Ing.

First of all, the main idea is, that a turbo by itself has no wear. If a turbo is going to fail, it must be via external influence. The turbo has an oil lubrication bearing without metal surfaces touching. Let me summerize their reasons for turbo failures in my words:

- Bad, old or not enough oil reaching the turbo bearing. Or oil with high percentage of diesel due to particle filter/ DPF cleaning procedure. Causes lack of lubrication in the turbo oil bearing. The design of this bearing is a technology by itself. Please use Google for more info. Would take pages to describe here.

- The RR has had some high speed driving earlier when the engine was shut of in very hot condition. The pipe getting the oil to the turbo started building up some oil crust and the pipe diameter shrinks. Not enough oil getting to the bearing, same problem.

- The piping getting the oil back into the engine has the same issue. The diameter shrinks to the same issue. Very hot engine stopped immedeatly. The oil pump stops working when the engine is shut off. Oil remains in the pipe and gets hot up to several hundred degrees and starts gluing inside the oil pipe. This pipe is like "remeber only" part. The burned oil in that pipe remains there with a sticky behaviour. Next time driving the car at high speeds and stopping the car, some procedure. Nearly no chance to get that oil pipe clean again. At a certain time, the backflowing of the oil into the engine is blocked. >> The oil can´t move back. The turbo with the suction force starts sucking the oil into the cooler. - I have read about RR owners loosing oil, but there was no sign of oil at the engine. The missing oil went into the air cooler. Even too much oil in that air cooler getting than into the cylinder can cause a massive engine break down, as the oil is not compressable.

- The particle filter is blocked: There is a backpressure from the exhaust system towards the turbo. The turbo wheel get´s an additional sideforce, for which it is not designed. The oil bearing can not support this additional sideforce. The turbo bearing will seize up. When the turbo bearing seizes up, it will stop rotating immedeatly.

- The nut, that holds the turbine wheel will get loose, as it gets the rotational moment in the wrong direction. (When the turbo starts rotating, the nut will get the moment to get tighter - opposite effect when the turbo stops hardly) The nut falls off and might get into the turbo blades,... further on into the engine and causes multible defects on valves, pistons, cylinder walls,...

- Parts of the EGR valves break off due to wear. They move via turbo into the engine, passing valves,... causing multiple engine defects.

When a turbo seized up due to oil problems, the turbo failure is only the effect, not the root cause. Hopefully the garage replaces the oil pipes as well and takes care of the DPF. Otherwise the new turbos will fail again. Replacing turbos without looking for the root cause just brings the customer back into the garage...

My summerize for potential engine defects with turbos involved:

- Oil and oil piping
- DPF and exhaust back-pressure
- EGR valves

My personal advice to take care of our FF TDV8:

- Check driving behaviour
- Good oil maintenance, oil cleaning of the system
- Check oil film in the aircooler regulary
- Take care of DPF before it causes engine problems (mine does not have one, only diesel cat)
- Replace, block, remap the EGR


Take care of your FF and your TDV8 engines!

Regards from Germany

Markus

GraemeS wrote:

When changing the oil on both the 3.6 and the 4.4, don't forget to remove the rear drain plug to drain the turbo drain mini-sump, used for both turbos on the 3.6 and the secondary on the 4.4 so that it doesn't eventually fill with sludge which can block the turbo drain(s).