Sorry for the fake news headline, just wanted to grab some attention...

Spinning off on the excellent thread https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic53419.html....

It seems to me that the 3.6 TDV8 get´s a bad reputation as compared to the 4.4 TDV8?

From an almost Sherlock Holmes like investigation my conclusions are (and feel free to correct me if I´m wrong) that the "only" major issue with the 3.6 is turbo failure and this;

a) only affects a small amount of cars in the grand scheme of things and
b) is almost always due to poor service and/or poor oils causing EGR valves to not work correctly.

So by treating EGR valves as wearing parts and replacing them along with split intercooler/turbo hoses the issue with turbo failure should be avoided?

Compare this to the 4.4 which seems to always need;

a) auxilary belt and tensioners replaced at some point - seems to be all cars
b) leaking oil cooler which needs replacing - seems fairly common
c) DPF issues often caused by faulty temrature sensor in engine - seems fairly common
d) in some cases the turbo drain mod - not sure how common it is?


So from a pure reliability/maintinance/cost perspective, could it be argued that the 3.6 is at least as good as the 4.4?

I fully acknowledge that the 4.4 with 8-speed is a much better option from a driver point of view. I´m simply trying to keep it focused to reliability?

Please argue with me! RR Vogue 4.4 TDV8 - 11
Toyota Land Cruiser Prado - 02

LR Discovery 4 SDV6 -11 - Gone
RR Vogue 3.6 TDV8 - Gone

imo the issues affecting the 4.4 are all relatively easy to deal with, and you get symptoms to indicate if work is necessary.
dpf and turbo drain mod only become an issue I believe if you only do short slow journeys (don't get the revs up for any length of time / distance)

The turbo issue on the 3.6 however is a much bigger, costly job, and not easy to check beforehand if your likely to be buying into problems. Its not the only issue they suffer either, they also have split inlet ducts and oil leaks.

I agree that this may be an out of date perception now that there are more of the earlier 4.4s around, and we can get a better picture of extended reliability. I would still rather have a 4.4 though  Too many toys, not enough time

2011 4.4 TDV8 AB Black

Well, I paid more money to skip the 3.6 altogether and went from TD6 to 4.4 TDV8.

Didn’t want the worry of the sudden turbo failure and the engine lunching on itself without warning.

Only had the b) issue on my 4.4.

The 3.6’s are older and have a few more miles on them now and personally, whilst I’m not normally worried about mileage as such....I recon it’s getting nearer to crunch time if a turbo issue is gonna happen. I’ve read that the issue has still occurred after new EGRs fitted, so I just decided not to take the chance.

More issues were seen turbo wise on the Sport I think, mainly due to less space under bonnet and thus more heat...?

I know most of them will be fine....but knowing my luck.....

The issues with the 4.4 can be spotted early....and don’t trash the engine without warning.

Just my 2p..... you pays your money and you make your choice.....and all that.

 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

There are potential faults with any - same with the L405 engines - it's a roll of the dice IMHO

Having said that, the petrol engines seem to be more reliable - providing they are not converted to LPG - and even then, the failure rat seems low.

No idea how true it is, but I've seen mentioned in a couple of places that the 4.4 was introduced specifically to overcome the inherent design issues with the 3.6 and it's turbos. 2010 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE

I've just had the secondary turbo replaced on my 4.4 TDV8 at 95K.....also had oil pump leaks fixed, oil cooler in "V" leaks fixed and a few other bits....see here for full list of stuff done since Sept 2018:
https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic44115-75.html
When I bought it (off a forum member!) it did not have any symptoms (oil on engine undertray / oil burns smells etc)...or was it all cleaned off before inspection
Thankfully it was always going to be a "keeper" for a few years so don't mind the few grand it's cost
Certainly a lot cheaper than buying a newer RR, I have no finance on it and it will be worth something in the long run
Caveat emptor and have a healthy reserve budget. A Ford Fiesta it is not! Gone to a good home: 2011 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Buckingham Blue with Ivory and clear glass = "Rory"
2025MY Defender D350 90 in Silicon Silver on coils
1974 Series 3 Lightweight = "Millie"
Many, many other Landies over the years
My preferred specialist: www.glenrands.co.uk
--------------------------------------------------

So basically the main point is that the 3.6 is death by decapitation and the 4.4. is death by a thousand cuts with the opportunity to escape? RR Vogue 4.4 TDV8 - 11
Toyota Land Cruiser Prado - 02

LR Discovery 4 SDV6 -11 - Gone
RR Vogue 3.6 TDV8 - Gone

There have been catastrophic 4.4 failures too.

The vast majority of the 3.6 failures were in Sports & not FFRR's - no one seems entirely sure why

Same with the 3.0 - most of the failures there seem to be in Discoveries, but there have been some in L405's

So my initial point stands? RR Vogue 4.4 TDV8 - 11
Toyota Land Cruiser Prado - 02

LR Discovery 4 SDV6 -11 - Gone
RR Vogue 3.6 TDV8 - Gone

Dunno, everyone here who has driven both say the 4.4 is streets ahead.

The 4.4 is a titan with phenomenal torque. It shifts the 2.5 ton beast quite alarmingly when you boot it.

A late 3.6 would have benefitted from time and any revisions over it's life under the bonnet of an L322. Same for the 4.4; as a new engine introduced in 2010 (well a heavy variant) it has certainly had early issues which have been eventually been fixed over time. Eg turbo drain.

It can and does leak oil a bit, I would have hoped that a 2019 4.4 SDV8 (same engine) has better o-rings, a revised temp sensor in the manifold, starter, alternator etc etc.

So this is a bigger issue than which engine is better, it's about the any car or any engine which is new vs. mature within it's model lifecycle. eg. Early 405's have front suspension issues.

Drive both then make up your mind. Cheers, Greg
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
2011 Vogue SE 4.4 with lots of toys in Stornaway

Last edited by GGDR on 22nd Nov 2019 9:17am. Edited 1 time in total

Depends what your initial point is

There doesn't seem to be a clear consensus on how to avoid the 3.6 randomly going bang - you might be correct in your theory, but you might not......

It also seems that it's not economically possible to rebuild a 3.6 once it lets go, so the car is a write off.

So I guess it depends on your risk appetite - would you rather have the possibility of a few smaller things go wrong - or the possibility (albeit lower probability) of a complete failure ?

Is one better or worse - not sure it's clear cut

Alistair wrote:

The vast majority of the 3.6 failures were in Sports & not FFRR's - no one seems entirely sure why

The initial point doesn’t stand, the 3.6 could let go at any time without warning and then you will be left with a very expensive paper weight.

The 4.4 doesn’t do that.

 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

hahahaha, Alistair i´m not sure what it was

But maybe you and mjdronfield summed it up perfectly above.

I think I was making the point that the 3.6 gets more criticism than it deserves

Conclusion from all replies is that the 4.4 is less catastrophic when something goes really wrong? RR Vogue 4.4 TDV8 - 11
Toyota Land Cruiser Prado - 02

LR Discovery 4 SDV6 -11 - Gone
RR Vogue 3.6 TDV8 - Gone

I’d agree with that.

I didn’t want the worry, so went 4.4. The 4.4 is an epic machine.

 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport