I have never understood Defender prices - it seems you pick a figure out of the air and advertise it. I drove one a few years back and found it noisy and the steering was ssomething else, but I loved it and didn't find it as uncomfortable as people said it would be - and I'm 6ft 3.

I've recently picked up a G reg 90 for under £3k - its earned its keep so far! I can Chuck bales of hay inside or on the roof rack and not worry about the mess, its taken me into muddy fields to go shooting and towed then horse trailer with ease. I can also say its attracted more attention from the pony club mums than the FF ever did. It's the one car i can see myself keeping long term (provided it doesn't catastrophically fail). Mine has the 200tdi engine which I'm told is the best - no electronics and easy to fix.

But I still need a FF because.......well just because.

Haylands wrote:

Plus the L322 will go further off road in standard trim, with road tyres, than a 90 will, I know, I followed one around tong and did all the bit's he failed on, he was rather pi55ed off....

So you consider your L322 to be standard?
Soz' couldn't resist that. You are of course correct IMHO - an average driver in an L322 will get further than an average driver in a Deafner - apart from aproach and departure angles that is. The L322 has so many bits of electrickery to make sure this is the case. With the exception of a CDL the Deafner really has no driver aids so where it goes is down to the driver and not the assistance LR gave him. Back in a Defender!!

'But I still need a ff becouse.....well just because '. .......best answer by far

The reason they hold their value is because they're value is in what they are, not what they are made from and how. They're uneconomical, uncomfortable, leaky, cold, noisy and always needing repairs, but they are a classic, no-nonsense design, easy to maintain and undeniably fun to drive.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

I'm not trying to be awkward but...... my 90 HT, doing the same jobs the the TDV8 was, may just be slightly more economical but tbh I think they are about equal. Also, the heater in a 90 tdci is sooooo hot it's ridiculous - takes longer to warm up than the TDV8 though.

The one big advantage the L322 had over the Deafner is the steering lock I could never go wider than 235s (used to run 265 on previous ones) just for that reason alone and as it so good at throwing up its sides 30mm spacers are a no no for me. Back in a Defender!!

I was thinking in terms of older Defenders re heater. Guess MPG depends on usage though; the L322 must have a clear advantage on longer motorway runs etc. but, of course, one doesn't generally buy a Defender for that.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

When people say Defender, I am assuming this relates relates to vehicles made from 1990(?). Before that, they carried the 90 &110 badge.

Maybe later ones are better to own; the TD5's I went in were quieter but retained the same water ingress problems. I had a 1989 90 2.5 petrol, converted to LPG and then made into a 300TDi. It was my daily vehicle and did about 180,000 miles in nine years, adding to the 120k it had when I bought it. Clearly this was hard on it and me and I can't be completely accurate because it had both speedo and speedo cable replaced at different times.

No amount of extra soundproofing made it L322 quiet or even quiet enough for prolonged driving, economy was okay at about 30-35mpg, tyres lasted 40,000 miles but the damn thing always let in rain, no matter how many new or re-fitted seals and new doors and gutter modifications were made. The original heater was rubbish but the later was pretty good but only for screen or feet.

To be fair, it only broke down once, in petrol form prompting TDi upgrade and at the end of the ownership experience, it dropped the drain plug out of the transfer box when I was on the M25 doing seventy. All other issues didn't necessitate it being recovered or off the road as such.

In many ways, I still miss it BUT that is wearing rose tinted glasses because I know that I couldn't go back to something so loud, cramped (I am tall and wide) and un-modern for daily use, even though I am doing significantly less miles now…. however, I do miss being able to leave it in car parks without being concerned about damage.

my mate uses his everyday as his main car all year and hes a multi million ££ guy but careful with pennies

Click image to enlarge

Quote:

multi million ££ guy but careful with pennies

Cut him some slack...he has bought a LR.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

Haylands wrote:

That's why I offroad an L322, can't afford a 90 or 110

Plus the L322 will go further off road in standard trim, with road tyres, than a 90 will, I know, I followed one around tong and did all the bit's he failed on:

I kind of agree with Haylands..
If you put an equally tyred l322 and a defender, across a wet field, and up a hill, the l322 will intelligently drive across it, whereas the defender, will spray mud everywhere, I'm not saying every situation is the same, but traction control, is a very clever thing.


When I was talking with the guy and his £10k defender, and he was championing his 'go anywhere' defender, he had a few heavies around him, so I couldn't discuss/argue, as I don't know how inbred they all were..

I was going to say to him, ' what would you rather drive', but thought I might be tied up and forced to make pig squealing noises...

But just look up say 'defender 2002' to get a surprising spread of price, on an ageing vehicle, from say £5000-£15000, against an l322 from £5000- to maybe 8,000.

I think part of it was summarised beautifully by a mate of mine who drove my 110 down to a friends house whilst I drove the '322.

"I was left for dust when accelerating, the steering was all over the place compared to my beemer. But... I've never got out of the beemer with such a big grin on my face."

He also loved the fact that in a 25 mile drive he got 7 other Defender's & Series flashing their lights and waving at him.

Other aspects are their sheer versatility and the fact they are very DIY friendly - you can't simply bolt bits of plywood down and build a bed in the back of a '322 as you can a Defender. You also have a huge number of parts and decades of experience behind them so it doesn't really matter what you want to do with them - someone will have done it before. Expedition vehicles, utility vehicles, monster trucks, competition spec, Dakar spec, ambulances, police vehicles, amphibious... My company has even built a 100ft mast into the back of them so that emergency networks can be setup in the case of large scale attacks on the UK... Ed

Welshdragon wrote:

'But I still need a ff becouse.....well just because '. .......best answer by far

That blue FFRR must be one of the best looking cars there is The colour is simply stunning

However, if I had to buy one off you the 2nd from the right would be my choice

Very, very nice line-up - I'm well jealous  Back in a Defender!!

Thank you sir , always wanted MCB ffrr ever since I saw one at an open dealers day at Gaydon many years ago, still have the broucher!
The 110 is the work horse of the family now, mrs dragon used this every day to commute to work for 20 years at least ....and she never complained about the cold, drafty, slow or been noisy. .... even if I use it more than she does now it's still going. If it dont work.......burn it!

If the IId tool cant fix it.......burn the FF.

If the FF cant be fixed......buy a Land Cruiser!

If the LC cant be fixed..............................................BUY a horse !!

Noisy , uncomfortable , Land Rover patented "Wandermatic" steering , a hand brake sticking right into my left calf muscle , easy to roll , dangerous in a crash and my right shoulder can't be in the car at the same time as me

Still, I loved mine at the time but never again But if they didn't hold their value so well I wouldn't have sold it for silly money

Once drove it from Argyll to Dover overnight , at first I was worried I might die , then I was worried I might not  2008 MY Supercharged
Rimini Red / Jet
four zone climate
remote park heater
and no ugly kid windows.
magnus satis quod turpis satis

The steering on mine is direct and wander-free.

Then again, mine has a steering box in good condition with no play, good bushes and a smaller steering wheel. Defenders can be rather tyre pressure-sensitive.

I also have stiffened rear suspension and Old Man Emu gas shocks all round and new OEM bushes everywhere. No suspension lift, but taller tyres. Mine doesn't roll that much.

Remarkably fun on twisty roads.  Si. <This is my name.

I eat rat poison.

A man ain't truly been insulted until he stands buck naked in front of a woman and she didn't even notice. Or care.