Why can't we all just get along.......................

Ziggys gonna have a whinge....................

We have been living in a converted barn on our property for the last 5 years when we'v not been in the UK

a couple of weeks ago we had a visit from the local council compliance officer, (nice bloke) tells me the council have received a complaint about PEOPLE living in a barn.......now its a very nice barn 2 bedrooms lounge dinning area kitchen bathroom large outside deck area reverse cycle air con connected to the sewer, town water as well as tank water connected to the power grid own power meter as well as solar power.

Now the nice man from the council says Oh this is very nice ......your going to have to remove everything and revert it back to a barn as that's all you have approval for.

Why asks I....well somebody complained says he...........and you can only have two dwellings on your block

(We have a house with a granny flat attached down the front of the block)

Oh says I what did they complain about privacy issues, noise issues blocking views sunlight issues

No says he they just don't like you living in the barn

The world needs a mass extermination event there are too many people out there who need to stop breathing

Ok I feel better now..............

Ziggy "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana
Puts away his cloth cap and donkey jacket
Goes and sits in the naughty corner

I know where your coming from fella.....planning application and bat survey is my gripe at the mo.....  If it dont work.......burn it!

If the IId tool cant fix it.......burn the FF.

If the FF cant be fixed......buy a Land Cruiser!

If the LC cant be fixed..............................................BUY a horse !!

whats the alternative then? just do what you like when you like. build what you want where you want? don't worry about the effects these actions have on the local community, neighbours wildlife etc.

Yes the planning system could be improved and there are plenty of planning officers I deal with on a daily basis that need to improve but at the end of the day the law is there for a reason.

if you have not got lawful planning permission then thats that. Apply for it or comply with the enforcement.

I see the distress and disruption unlawful development causes everyday from both sides of the fence. The only true solution is to comply with the law.

and breathe.... 405 AB exec seats Baltic and Cirrus
93 RR Classic efi

Remember it's easier to get forgiveness than permission!

Gone in order:
4.4 TDV8 SE - gone to a good home
93 Classic hard dash Plymouth Blue
03 L322 Oslo Blue
2000 Disco TD5 ES Epsom Green
98 P38 Rioja Red
89 Classic Cairngorm Brown

ajac8

Mate this is just the sort of response I would of heard at Nuremberg, but I was only following orders sir

the house and flat have LPA the barn has LPA the fit out of the barn does not (second story) but it was designed

so we could add a mezzane floor into it when we got approval to build it (but wasn't included in the plans)

nothing I have done changes the footprint of the land one bit.

I fully agree with you that you should consider the land and your neighbors when you build things but if what your planning does not impact anything then you should be allowed to.

As we'v been in here for the last 5 years get on with all the neighbors (bar one) whats the problem. apart from the one who has't got the testicles to front me. And say anything

Where has commonsense gone, people are been brain washed by the drivel they sit and watch on the idiot box

read in the news and I say that very lightly because how some of the newscan be called that defies all logic. Give it another 10 years and you'll all have a bar code stamped on the back of your necks with no independent thought at all.

All opinions and views in this post are my own no offence is intended to persons alive or dead


Ziggy[/url] "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana
Puts away his cloth cap and donkey jacket
Goes and sits in the naughty corner

Planning is bull we erected a fence to comply with the DDA (Dangerous Dog Act) the prick across the road complained the LPO came round ordered us to remove said fence irrespective of the DDA legalisation. So now we comply with the LPO but not the DDA (least the order is in writing and names the DDA)

So we said a'rnt my dogs allowed to roam my property. Their reply was keep them in the back garden off Times are getting interesting.

Before you dog haters spout on My wife is Blind Weimies are fab escape artist so they slip out

Times are indeed getting interesting, it wont be long before were told when to get up what to eat who we can talk to and how many breaths we can take per minute.

The sad thing is young folk will blindly acquiesce to all these new rules to keep us all safe, because all there life they have never had to think for themselves, they have never lost at sports, never failed at exams

Oh well that's life

I'me still of the opinion that the planet would be better off with a lot less of the humans............

were like locusts devour everything in one paddock then move onto the next only problem is we got only one planet.

Zigg "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana
Puts away his cloth cap and donkey jacket
Goes and sits in the naughty corner

@ziggy
Quote 'only problem is we got only one planet.'

You are forgetting about Earth2

I can just see it now, a spacecraft from Earth1 spends 5 million light years travelling to Earth2 and makes contact with the inhabitants,

Then comes the cry 'OY YOU!! HAVE YOU HAD PERMISSION TO PARK THAT SPACECRAFT THERE' by a jobsworth in a Hi-Vis Jacket

^ you owe me a keyboard. Just snorted coffee all over the place at that.

@mzplcg, rule no. 1 on the forum (well more like advice as rules are not my favourite items anyway but more about that further down), empty all orifices before entering the forum as the risk of spraying, spilling etc. is high at times . I mean you should know that by now and also get a watertight keyboard while you are at it .

@ziggy, mate I totally agree with you. I come from the most regulated f****ing country in the bloody world (the Netherlands) where you need to apply for planning approval to sit down on the bog to take a dump, three months in advance so every single person working for the council can have their say in it. That attitude turned the Netherlands into a hell hole for people like me, I really truly hate the place because of that narrow minded thinking. Well not really thinking but more like lets make more rules so no one can have fun anymore. Why do you think the Dutch government had to legalize drugs ???? It is because Dutchies don't have clue how to have fun anymore. They are so tight arsed that you can actually apply for planning permission for the dump 3 months in advance because that is how long it takes them to open up anyway........

I had some "run ins" with Dutch planning authorities as well (and they "lost" ) and I picked up some intersting things that may help you with this.

First, if a situation has been allowed to persist for a certain amount of time, than a lot of countries actually have laws to say that you don't have to remove it. Those 5 years could be enough to let the local council man to eat his words, i.e. he should have done something earlier.

Also, if you travel enough so that you can say, the barn is only used as a recreational dwelling, it might not need planning permission or not the type that a house would need.

Also, if someone complains, they should have reasonable grounds to complain (and that idiot is clearly of Dutch ancestry because that is what a lot of cloggies are like I tell you, little collaborators types). In other words, if there is no reasonable ground for them to complain, they are actually violating your rights and if you can in Oz, sue the pants of them for that.

Maybe you can also argue that the granny flat is actually part of the main house (or a good lawyer may be) and therefore can not be classed as the second dwelling. Or maybe it is worth to turn the granny flat into a garage of sorts. I mean, you can do all kinds of those sort of "clever" things to screw up the council .

Or you maybe able to get retrospective planning approval.

In other words, have a smart lawyer that has done this type of work have a look at your situation.

Even without a lawyer, wait till they write you a letter telling to do whatever and then start writing letters back protesting, delaying, etc. etc. Come up with anything that you can think of to keep them from closing the case, just keep it open and maybe they will give up at some point . Don't hesitate to use terms as going to the press, taking all the way to the high court, if they threaten action tell them you will sue them for any cost, damage, whatever you can think of etc. etc. Make them suffer and make it expensive for them to try to make you comply. But don't give in  MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

Last edited by ebajema on 7th Aug 2015 1:56pm. Edited 1 time in total

I have to agree about Holland (AKA the netherlands)
I lived in Rotterdam for a while in the mid 80's to 90's, on a Rhine ARK, (thats a kind of house boat capable of sailing, like a UK Narrow Boat but much bigger). I kept my friends Opel Corsa on the rear deck for a while because it had to be off the road. That gives you some idea of the size.
I did not have much trouble from the authorities, in Rotterdam, but I think this was because all the another boats on my Kade were whore houses ! They guy who sold me the Rhine Ark did not mention this! It was quite a laugh when my elderly mother came to visit once.

Eventually I moved the boat to Twente, on the canal between Enschede and Hengelo. The Local authorities there were a nightmare, so much so that I sold the boat and bought a house !!

I looked at one of those as well and I realized at some point that the local councils were moving them to the worst places in their area. Because they can't tax them very much and because they "don't fit in the general landscape" and more of that sort of BS. There are not a lot of (nice) places in the Netherlands where you can still moor them unfortunately. Overregulated, too small, narrow minded inhabitants, nah the Netherlands are not my choice of place to live/retire..........

I used to drive passed Kleinpolderplein every day for years (living in my "illegal" place in the woods near Roosendaal ) and see the houseboats underneath the flyovers and think, that is not the greatest place to have a houseboat. Leiden also has a few but also not all at nice locations.

I do have a guy I used to work with that is currently still living on a houseboat with his family and his is in a reasonably nice area (well as far as that is possible in the Holland part of the Netherlands) but that is very rare he told me.

Anyway, Ziggy, I hope that my hints and tips can give you an out and flip the bird at that Nazi neighbour of yours

And then something else, the Australian government seems to be in the process of raping the country big time with their massive mining projects but someone living in an existing barn is all of a sudden a menace to society ????? I don't f--ing believe this anymore............ MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

Whhoah there Ziggy cowboy - slow down a bit.

"The world needs a mass extermination event there are too many people out there who need to stop breathing' WTF?

If you have planning permission for a barn conversion into two dwellings, that does not mean you have planning permission to turn that into three dwellings or 4? or 5?

In England and Wales LPA's do not (or at least should not) commence formal enforcement action by telling an 'offender' to remove everything. They have to invite a formal retrospective application for the 'offending' development and allow that application to be given due process against the adopted local plan policies of that LPA and national regulation. If this is successful then matter solved and the neighbour without testicles can take a walk. If this is unsuccessful the applicant has the right of appeal (all the way to the House of Lords if they are so minded), if that is unsuccessful then the LPA may seek an injunction to get the offending development removed.

Only significantly contentious developments and / or total conviction would see something ever getting this far.

For illegal development on existing purpose built residential buildings the LPA has 4 years to take action. For illegal changes of use (say a barn or part of a barn into a habitable space for example ) they have 10 years to commence such enforcement action. Only after these periods with no LPA intervention does illegal development become lawful use.

LPA’s hear the ‘going to the press’ argument every day together with a whole raft of lame excuses and over-blown opinions normally made by those who should really have known better. Don’t think anyone has ever stepped so low as to reference in the actions of the Nazis in the second world war tho- whilst at the same time saying themselves the world needs mass extermination.

Laws are laws, we are not above them and if you feel you are in the right, apply for permission, appeal any refusal and if that does not work then throw your rattle out of the pram. It always makes me smile when folk decide which laws apply to them but often expect the full force of the law to be applied if they are aggrieved in some way.

Despite your closing line, I do take a bit of offence at my comments being likened to a Nuremberg excuse particularly when my understanding of such matters is obviously significantly greater than yours. Your neighbour may be a total ar5e – there are plenty of them about but the LPA are carrying out their duty.

I for one am glad we have such laws as over the last 30 years of being called in to act for aggrieved parties I’ve seen so many people, properties, businesses and families potentially blighted by inappropriate development through no fault of their own.

If it were you, you would want something done about it I’m sure (or would you just gas ‘em?).

All best with the LPA – sounds like its gonna be fun! 405 AB exec seats Baltic and Cirrus
93 RR Classic efi

Remember it's easier to get forgiveness than permission!

Gone in order:
4.4 TDV8 SE - gone to a good home
93 Classic hard dash Plymouth Blue
03 L322 Oslo Blue
2000 Disco TD5 ES Epsom Green
98 P38 Rioja Red
89 Classic Cairngorm Brown

I agree that LPAs prevent certain issues as well. Unfortunately building regulations are not always sensible or in tune with the environment. Most counsils have building regulations designed for urban environments and not rural environments for example. In other words, it could very well be that the regulations for Ziggy are focussed on urban and therefore not really sensible for rural or the other way around.

Now I'm not implying that if the regulations don't make sense, to ignore them, on the contrary, fight them and make sure that Ziggy's situation is evaluated against the regulations in letter and in spirit.

Retrospective approval seems a good route but I suggest to investigate any other routes as well, don't just roll over just because the local counsil guy offered only one option. It is quite likely if the conversion of the barn is A. fully safe and in line with all HSE regulations and B. not an eyesore, it may be easy to get retrospective approval (if there is such a thing in the local, state and national laws). But also using other options as I described in my earlier post could be a course.

As for the overcrowding of this planet, I tend to agree that there are just too many people around and it is going to be unsustainable in the near future. As for active or passive culling, I totally disagree with that notion as it is just won't work. The first course of action should be to increase sustainable lifestyle in every part of the world and eliminate all non sustainable process completely. That is the primary driver.

The next is looking at ways to control the world population in a sustainable, fair and human way as well.

I find it unlikely that emerging nations will not have the same wants and needs as the first world has. A house, appliances, good food, good healthcare, education, transport etc. etc. It would be wrong to deny anyone that even though it is unsustainable for the entire worlds population to get that. Therefore by finding ways to become fully sustainable at local, national and international level it will result in self regulation of the population numbers eventually.

Switching to fully renewable energy sources, 100% recycling and local self sustainability to a large extent without restricting free movement of people around the planet (I'm quite happy to give up my "rightful place" in Dutch society to someone who would like to live in what I consider an unpleasent environment but that other may love it there).

I hate to come back on this but Jeremy Rifkin (and his team) seems to grasp the above concepts quite well and he/they make a lot of sense in how the world should develop in the near and distant future. It means a radical change from todays economy but it is necessary for humans to stay on this planet for a bit longer. If we do not change quickly enough, we may end up all becoming virtually or completely extinct. The planet will survive and even though it will probably take millenia or more to erase most of our traces, the new biosphere will find a new equilibrium and continue to go. It would be sad if that is without us.

I am hoping for humanity to "grow up" in the next decades / centuries and take to the stars, colonize other planets/galaxies (in a 100% sustainable way) and achieve "singularity" before the universe collapses (not sure if singularity will also still exist after the collapse !!). MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

G;Day

Well this is fun,

ebajema

I don't think the human race has the capacity to change we would probable make as much of a mess of other planets as we have of this one. But I do like the way you think.

ajac8


Cowboy Funny you should say that I always thought I'd have been better off in the 1800's in the wild west. I ride and shoot Single action

"The world needs a mass extermination event there are too many people out there who need to stop breathing' WTF?

Sorry old son, but there's just too many idiots on the planet, with the advances of the medical world, social security (read hand outs) the process of natural selection has been by passed those that would have died an early death are living to a ripe old age and whats worse there breeding like rabbits compounding the problem

If you have planning permission for a barn conversion into two dwellings, that does not mean you have planning permission to turn that into three dwellings or 4? or 5?

Of course not, I understand the reasons for rules there there to stop the morons who should not have reached puberty puting 4 or 5 dwellings on a small block.


In England and Wales LPA's do not (or at least should not) commence formal enforcement action by telling an 'offender' to remove everything. They have to invite a formal retrospective application for the 'offending' development and allow that application to be given due process against the adopted local plan policies of that LPA and national regulation. If this is successful then matter solved and the neighbour without testicles can take a walk. If this is unsuccessful the applicant has the right of appeal (all the way to the House of Lords if they are so minded), if that is unsuccessful then the LPA may seek an injunction to get the offending development removed.

Well it don't work like that here nice man came out took photos told us we would be receiving a letter in the next day or two telling us we had 28 days to remove the fit-out. unless we lodged a DA. then that would stop the demolition order until the DA was sorted,

We went to council to lodge the DA only to be told we have a rule no more than 2 dwellings on one block waste of time and money putting in your DA.


LPA’s hear the ‘going to the press’ argument every day together with a whole raft of lame excuses and over-blown opinions normally made by those who should really have known better. Don’t think anyone has ever stepped so low as to reference in the actions of the Nazis in the second world war tho- whilst at the same time saying themselves the world needs mass extermination.

The reference there was intended to high light how a grate and prosperous country like Germany in the 1930's
could be brought down by its people blindly following the Laws. The mass culling has nothing to do with that, there's just too many idiots on the planet



Laws are laws, we are not above them and if you feel you are in the right, apply for permission, appeal any refusal and if that does not work then throw your rattle out of the pram. It always makes me smile when folk decide which laws apply to them but often expect the full force of the law to be applied if they are aggrieved in some way.

Some laws are good some laws are bad some laws are just there to raise revenue. BUT they are ALL somebody's idea of what is right and wrong this brings me back to why can't we all get along which brings us back to there are too many idiots in the world. I have never resorted to the law without first seeking recourse myself. When I have been caught braking the law (not so often these days I'm getting old) I put my hand up and as the old saying goes cops it sweet M'Lord.


Despite your closing line, I do take a bit of offence at my comments being likened to a Nuremberg excuse particularly when my understanding of such matters is obviously significantly greater than yours. Your neighbour may be a total ar5e – there are plenty of them about but the LPA are carrying out their duty.

Please don't take offence I don't know you from Adam and was not referring to you in particular,just the pattern of thought, but if the cap fits.

I for one am glad we have such laws as over the last 30 years of being called in to act for aggrieved parties I’ve seen so many people, properties, businesses and families potentially blighted by inappropriate development through no fault of their own.

Yes well if we all got along you'd be out of a job

If it were you, you would want something done about it I’m sure (or would you just gas ‘em?).

No I'd pop over and say G'Day did you know that since you built your shed with no gutters no down pipes all the water makes a pool at the top of my yard cobber would be nice if you fixed that...

Happened a couple of years ago both neighbors on my rear fence line built big sheds the roofs of which acted like rain catchers and dumped all the run off in my yard, after we had a natter we all became good mates, I helped them with the guttering and piping they helped convert my barn go camping with one regularly

All best with the LPA – sounds like its gonna be fun!

Thanks, I stand no chance with the council so waiting on a lawyer to say if there's any chance of contesting there 2 dwelling law.

Remember the only laws worth keeping are your own

Zigg "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana
Puts away his cloth cap and donkey jacket
Goes and sits in the naughty corner