please consider this before changing 'one' guide, You are going to have to remove the front timing cover, to do this you need to remove the two upper front covers, rocker covers, coils, injection loom, and to remove the main front cover, you will need to remove the cranshaft damper nut. (tough job!) -the chain will be slack whilst removing the guide, and the camshafts will move all over the place, with valve spring tension. these need to be teased back, and locked with the setting tools. the crank is locked with same set. this doesnt really provide enough 'lock' to remove the crankshaft damper nut. that requires some sort of flywheel jamming 'device' to lock it proper as its incredibly tight! ie 5ft pole required, on a 3/4 inch t bar breaker bar.
all this work, means you are going to have the job of renewing all three tensioners, on a plate. ie 10 minutes more time to do all three. and about £75 more expense. -trust me they will be shagged! you need to replace the cover gaskets too (and rocker cover gaskets) as they snap to bits as they are brittle, and will leak all over if not removed, cleaned up and some silicone placed at junctions/ends etc. its false economy to not change all three guides, and the chain, and tensioner. and the cover gaskets. and a front oil seal. mine was about £600 parts you can leave the secondary chain guides, vanos seals etc. this will maybe half the bill. but you are going to be releasing these vanos 'cogs' and these then need to be reset, against the locked cams. if you think you can poke a hand down and bolt in the right hand guide, and change the oil, you are way too optimistic. this IS a long-ish job. two days if you have all the stuff/parts etc. maybe one day if you have done it once before.... ie laptop not required etc. i still have my tools, and home made nut remover! the 'nut remover' is a piece of thick steel drilled 'disc' using the damper body hole poisions, and an arm welded to it, to slam against the subframe, locking the crank, whilst you stand on bonnet slam area, and pull like feck! on a 5ft scaffold pole!
there is plenty said about 'vanos rattle' and this is the perfect time to squeeze a pair of new vanos seals in, at £100 for the seals AND special tool needed, to do a worthwile job. (£500 chain 'kit',+£100 seals=£600 all dealer except seals from 'Besian USA')
mine is as quite now as a dead mouse! no leaks, fine for another 150k miles oil filter clean on 2nd renewal etc.
iIhad a couple of water leaks after doing this job, that meant i had to remove rad a couple of times, to get to the water tubes, and change thos £1 'O' rings that I skipped on the rebuild! and i was glad i bought a couple of water pump gaskets, as they are a sod to place/line up etc.

do it in a relaxed manner, with plenty of light, in a garage etc.
Engines these days, are precision made, and as such are more exacting on method/manner, and carefull consideration.

John,

Fully appreciate you taking the time to write such a long response. I know what I *should* do but I am extremely limited by time, money and no garage! Add to that the fact that we've got a week of wet weather coming at us here and it's not stacking up in my favour.

If only I could just reduce the rattle until into January... having oil actually circulating *may* help but obviously I can't rely on that alone!

I'm going to see what I can achieve, but fully respect the experience that others like yourself have had and written about in this thread. Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

yes, l appreciate you pain! i did mine outside, as that was where it was! in that everlasting frozen January a couple of years back, so i could only manage a few hours at a time, without cold hand fatigue, and anger setting in! i just would not drive it till its sorted my friend. you are on a 'cliff-edge' here... if you toast it, you are looking at more work to change engine, and the lump will be £2000 and will have similar 'cliff-edge' potential chains waiting to, 'go'
its possible to assume that the engines' design although (in my opinion) a very good one, has the potential to; when 'seriously' low on oil that the tensioner becomes inoperable, causing chain slap to break the right plastic (now age-brittle) tensioner. but as the chains are now loose, your centre plastic guide is being torn to ribbons. this is causing the timing gears to badly mesh on the chain, causing gears to wear, and potential 'kaboom' tooth-jump! or even snappage! the tesioner could even pop out, and kill it, if the chain doesnt throw it through the cover!
Trust me i'm not some main dealer 'mechanic with all the wisdom and no wallet pain consideration', i am just a competant DIY mechanic doing a different dayjob, (comms engineer) -Yes, i do have more greasy hammers than Upton Park, but didn't need any to do this job. apart from the 'big nut' -just a decent 3/8 socket set with a deep and shallow selection.
just remembering, removing the lower cover, against the sump, was relieved to see it didnt comprimise the upper sump gasket, and, as you replace the front timing cover, you tighten this against sump first, then you loosly fit upper timing covers, with some RTV sealant added to the edges/ends, and then rocker covers, and pre-tension the rocker covers to align the upper covers, and then tighten them, to ensure good alginment, oil sealing etc. i was back and forth to the dealers getting sundry bits, as i found i needed them, so it took me a week, really to do it. (snowing, hard frosts etc) this is why i remember so much about it!!

cant you borrow a car, or buy an old £200 sh!tter to drive around, (transfer insurance etc) till you can put good time to the rangie?

oh, and Merry Christmas!

i will edit this post to add some pics later..

A great write up, and confidence booster for anyone with one of these amazing old vehicles!!

edit, well i couldn't do better pics than this guy has done, this IS whats required to do the full job,
-thats all three guides, chain/tensioner/vanos seals/vanos solenoid 'piston rings'/return valves/gaskets/cleanup etc. and he made the 'big nut' tool aswell. (but use stainless steel bolts, as you see he bent his tool!
virtually identical to my job.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthre...nput/page2 Wiki paste?
you will note, that the intake manifold comes off, i didn't do this, and a such didn't do my valley pan gasket. i disturbed the rear water tube o rings, meaning i had more work after completion to retify this. so he does the better job. and tackles all related issues in one job. cheaply at point of spanner dissection! (and replaces water pump i believe) you can see he has thick black 'furry' grease on front of engine, like mine... meaning it hasnt been opened in its life, so its come to its natural due date. like mine did at 140k. i would recommend this job is considered as a buyers check bucket list 'requirement'.

Excellent post. thanks.

The DIY angle is diminishing rapidly . just haven't got 2 says and/or a dry environment to do it. I need my car so am on my way to discuss with a couple of garages I use...

As i'm as bad burnt as scalded, I'll get them to buy the other 2 guides as well for an additional £130... Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

hi again, you are doing the right thing!
when i did mine, that posting with those pictures wasnt there. i used this one, showing how to renew those vanos seals. quite comprehensive too. http://www.beisansystems.com/procedures/m62tu_vanos_procedure.htm
they supply the kit for £60 which is a pair of special seals basically! and then a pressing tool and some miniature probe picks to do it easily. to total about £100 posted to UK. I think you will be shown your old centre guide and front cover showing scroring, from the chain going sideways, as centre guide will be missing its nylon. My lower front cover was scored. checked, and cleaned and reused.
To me this was my engine's major overhaul, though not knowing its 'history' and idiosycracies, i opted for the vanos seals, and a full chains job. it was silly not to.
You will see the lower oil pump chain, that is not part of this job, it will stay. just plug it with rag in case you drop anything into sump. like a bolt! What with people moaning on youtube about vanos rattle, and stories about oil non return valves etc, the return valves at about £3 went in too, and the vanos piston rings, at about £30 a side (i think.) i kept my invoices with part numbers somewhere.
You can see with those great pictures, exactly whats going to happen with your engine, and how clean it will almost certainly be INSIDE! the engine. these engines, run lovely on synthetic oil, and mine was in similar condition, unlike older cars i've owned, all full of 'black death' and thick with it!
remember, these engines were fitted to some Bentleys!
I hope your job goes swimmingly, and no oil leaks, and no water leaks either! just insist on alternator seal is changed and water pump gasket changed at least. and o rings either end of the water pipes. with some RTV sealant here and there.
i did an oil filter change after 50 miles, and oil and filter change after 1000 miles to give it a good chance to clean itself. and dropped sump in case a piece or guide was still 'hanging around'!
its worth finding someone with one of these jobs already under his belt, as he will do it faster etc.
good luck.

Went to my usual guy and he said no... too time intensive for him to make any money on it - which I think is quite reasonable rather than just ramping the cost up to cover it. I asked about a BWM indy and I'm waiting for him to call me back with a price. Going to research and if there are any more BMW indy garages nearby to compare with. Indy insists on new chains as well... Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

you could do nothing better than to go across to the dark side and visit a bmw forum, with searches for m62tu44 chain guides searches etc. and find a local recommened etc. there would be loads of 7 series and 5 series too, with this job needed.

Local BMW indy wants £1800 to replace just about everything under the timing chain covers... whilst in some books that's a sensible procedure - it's not happening!

So, not having waved a greasy spanner around for a few years, I've decided to to it myself. Ordering the other two guides and the tensioner tomorrow whilst I strip it down, then put it all back together on Friday - well... that's the plan anyway!

I've seen someone make cam locks out of wood so that's not an issue BUT, locking the flywheel - do I *have* to buy a special tool, or is there something I can utilise to achieve the required effect? Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

by all means order and do the job yourself.... but mate, buy the tools!
use them, and resell them at a slight loss. hence you are 'renting' them for the duration of the repair etc. removes all doubt. to do the vanos cogs, they are coming off, and no amount of wood/rulers/ is gonna sort you out!
the flywheel locking tool is just a rod, with a tapered end. and a finger pull on end to remove it.
i think i need to take a photo of the tools and post it. -if you look at that bmw engine, in earlier link, you can see all the vanos locaters, and camshaft locks in place. its at this point that you install new chain, (about £60 i think) if you do anyhting slightly wrong, you are in for some piston/valve aggro, no vanos action even a 'no spark' if the camshaft sensor doesnt like the look of the pulses. thats done by the litttle tin tabs on front of vanos cogs, at top of engine. if you buy all the bits and tools like i did, at about £600+ a few extras, like oil! you are garuanteed to have a £1000 fix, and a resale of the tools is gonna give you 3/4 of the £400 investment? surely... so, a £700 net fix. and, you know its done properly.
take your time!!
you can be getting on with some steel for the big nut, thats the first hurdle, then you know that the job is 'on' use stainless bolts, you dont want them sheared in the front of the crank! then you can start locking the engine at TDC with a tapered end rod.


do some googling in the warm.

As said above you need more than a block a wood to hold the cams due to the VANOS. The blocks of wood in a video you mentioned are for the older NON VANOS M62. You need the proper tools to hold and set the VANOS in the correct position otherwise you could just be throwing money away when valves meet pistons...ouch! Don't f*** it up for the sake of £70 hire cost for the full set of tools (check ebay for hire costs, or contact Phoenix Motorsport).
As said above hire the tool or buy and sell on afterwards.

Thanks guys, this is getting worse by the minute...

Phoenix - Accy - not too far away.. Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

...or tools to rent via ebay for £70... don't think this is going to happen as soon as I would like though...

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll keep you posted (but don't hold your breath ) Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

there's never a good time to throw a grand at a motor, especially at Christmas, but have you considered my previous idea? take your time, (this took 2 mins) and just buy an old sh!tter to drive, till you can do a proper job, and have plenty of time/weather to do it! something like this, but local to you..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Mondeo-mk2-...7675.l2557
you'll get your money back at the scrapper! I did this a few years ago, whilst I resprayed my daily driver. I then had great fun smashing it up and smoothing the sides in our work carpark, like a scene from Ryan O'neals, 'the driver' then blew the engine up in the street, and towed it in. cars were only worth £30 then, but this was only about 15 years ago. 150 a ton thesedays, plus a drink for the catalyst.
remember, those camshafts are hollow! if you just try to wedge them against each other with some 2x2 banged in, they are gonna break! they are set precisely, so that they have their timing degrees affected by oil pressure from the vanos action.
believe me, with all my greasy hammers, poles and 'adapted' tools I would have done it with wood if I could!