Hiya antoniasdad
Thanks for your input.

Terms like CCF and ZCS were once completely alien and totally unheard of to everyone on this board and the Disco3 one.
And it is truly quite complex and mind bending stuff to be fair.

But it is my 24/7 job to fully understand all this and the role of BBS to provide the requasite abilty and equipment to control and modify it in an understandable "to a layman" form.

but sadly so many still judge things on cost over ability  2003 4.4 HSE

BBS thank you that explains it very well indeed

I'm sat down now so I'll ask, how much is a vin unlocked MSV2?? The mini is the one I think I'd look for myself as I don't need the display to work it as I have some super light laptops that can suffice for it

Dont get me wrong the msv2 definitely does a lot more but it's a typical ROI calculation at the minute and with an IDS coming in at £500 all in thats 25 helpings for people at £20 a shot and covers fords jags and Mazda...

I may get the ids first and use the money to buy the msv2...

Ahh I hate money related decisions!!!

Do you offer finance lol

BBS SPY wrote:

Hiya antoniasdad

but sadly so many still judge things on cost over ability

I have been guilty of that myself a few times but you do live and learn

I am glad you appreciated and understood my explaining how settings programming works and how a dealer tool actually handles it, i guess many will appreciate actually having this mystery process explained.

I am also glad that in answer to your question, you got to understand the difference in Handling programming and settings between the two bits of equipment you mentioned, and so now understand why you can't just make a list, as in essence every individual setting we provide is just not possible to be individually changed with T4/IDS. And although it is universally known that the MSV-2 is the ultimate, why it's hard for anyone to simply and quickly explain why. In fact as far as i know there simply is no other system that can do most of what the MSV-2 can, and this is never more true than with its CCF edit capabilities that Martin pointed out to you.
This feature alone has utterly revolutionised the modification possibilities for countless Disco 3 owners. Yet no one has even started to look at what can be achieved on L322's.

As i mentioned the HTML file the MSV-2 produces, i popped an example of a settings page for an 06 Instrument pack on line so you can see one first hand
http://www.blackbox-solutions.com/photos/L322IPAC.htm

I could bang on about how easy to use, nice user interface and all the many other tricks it can do but perhaps its best for you to watch it in action yourself.
so see this video from the Blackbox solutions website under the downloads/ general videos section.

http://www.blackbox-solutions.com/download..._L322.html

Also note that on the Later CAN bus / MOST ecu's, the MSV-2 provides flash programming capabilities for all ECU's and a flash file loader database that unlike IDS allows the programming of ealier ECU's with later data, which has been used to great effect on updating old Bluetooth Phone module.

I apologise to everyone for banging on a little bit about the MSV-2 benefits, like some demented salesman chasing a commission, but felt it a requisite prelude before discussing the price and our pricing policy in general, to hopefully lessen the shock a bit more than your just sitting down.

The reality is that reverse engineering and devolopment costs to produce equipment and software to the degree and capability we do is simply not quick, easy or cheap to do. This is naturally reflected in it's cost.

Any Buisiness investing such an amount would quickly recoup this and then start to make large and continued profits from having it, and many have, so we make no apology for it's price.

Such equipment would normally surely be outside the realms of consideration to any private owner, looking to get the best system for their own vehicle only, but for our willingness to substantially discount the cost of the software in exchange for licencing only the software specific to that one vehicle and locking it to the vehicles VIN. We have also made our Hardware element as low priced as it can possibly be.

But in terms of Private "for me and my vehicle only" (SV) or "any vehicle" (MV) as per a business, there is simply no middle ground.

It is made worse in respect of the fact that unlike the Disco 3 which is totally CAN vehicle with one licence that typically costs only 2.5 times what it does in MV over SV, the L322 is a vehicle that started out life with a collection of ECU's that we provided individual licences for and then LR later started adding a Can bus network of ECU's that grows through the different years and which we licence as one.

We do not do credit, however we do provide an upgrade path from an SV licence to MV ones which refunds you the value of your SV licence against the cost of any MV ones.

So if you bought an SV system for your own vehicle to get yourself aquainted with the system and it's capabilities, you would not loose out if you then decided to later make this MV and make a business out of it.

But that being said, i think you should reconsider applying simple maths to any business plan of diagnosing vehicles. Having diagnostic equipment, even the best there is, is but a fraction of what you will ultimately need to diagnose and fix problems.

I hope this helps  2003 4.4 HSE

BBS SPY wrote:

And although it is universally known that the MSV-2 is the ultimate, why it's hard for anyone to simply and quickly explain why.

Actually it's easy, Colin:
"There are all sorts of options on LR's that, even when all bits are installed, won't work because the software is not enabled to handle them.
The dealer can't change that. We can. And we're the only ones."


If you use that in your marketing I want royalties.  
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

Nice.  Graham

____
Gone: 10MY L320 RR Sport HSE, Ipanema Sand
Gone: 20MY Jaguar iPace HSE, Silicon Silver
Gone: 17MY RR Evoque SE Tech, Loire Blue
Gone: 08MY Discovery 3 XS, Stornoway Grey
Gone: 07MY FFRR TDV8 Vogue, Stornoway Grey

Thanks Steve
If i use it you will surely know

For sure the MSV-2 is the only system that does the sort of setting and re configuration stuff owners want and are willing to pay good money to have done, but as you know the FFRR is only the same vehicle in respect of it's body shell.
Diagnostically it changes over the years and covering all variants in multi vehicle mode represents quite some investment that is certainly not for the faint hearted.

Mind you neither is the cost of buying a Range Rover over other 4x4's either  2003 4.4 HSE

Some great info on the MSV-2. I have a question about it: Can it record faults in the order they occur while the car is running? Here's an example: My car has an issue at the moment where when driving down the motorway all of a sudden the air suspension deactivates, it goes to normal height, abs etc all light up. When I download the faults I get several things in different ECU's, but I don't know which one caused the others to fire. I *think* the root cause in mine is the steering angle sensor failing a plausibility check, which causes the other knock-on errors, but I can't be certain without recording the sequence in which things occur.

So in what ways could the MSV-2 help me that other diag tools that can only download faults can't?

Come on then BBS hit me with the cost of An MV licence for the FFRR in the following ag ranges...

2002-2005
2005-2010
2010- =>

Go on just let me see if i could save up enough for one

The prices are all on their website in the online shop.

Yes but it's scary looking at them... What you want to see is a quote for the lovely shiny blue thing you neeeeed so much, you can just buy it then...  Graham

____
Gone: 10MY L320 RR Sport HSE, Ipanema Sand
Gone: 20MY Jaguar iPace HSE, Silicon Silver
Gone: 17MY RR Evoque SE Tech, Loire Blue
Gone: 08MY Discovery 3 XS, Stornoway Grey
Gone: 07MY FFRR TDV8 Vogue, Stornoway Grey

Ahh sorry i didnt see that bit last time i looked

£3700 approx all in....

Hmm i best get saving

Testbook on ebay....

http://www.ebay.co.uk:80/itm/LANDROVER-ROV...mp;afsrc=1

 Reformed

New meaning of the word "budget"... Graham

____
Gone: 10MY L320 RR Sport HSE, Ipanema Sand
Gone: 20MY Jaguar iPace HSE, Silicon Silver
Gone: 17MY RR Evoque SE Tech, Loire Blue
Gone: 08MY Discovery 3 XS, Stornoway Grey
Gone: 07MY FFRR TDV8 Vogue, Stornoway Grey

ok next question, whats the difference between the VCI 1 and NON VCI 1 units??

Is it just for machines that dont support the use of it over their serial/com ports?