Some food for thought - thanks!

Are the earlier L405s any less reliable than the last of the L322s? In my mind (and perhaps naively) the L405s seem a more “complicated” car and have more to go wrong? Is that a stupid assumption?

The L405 linked above sounds ideal but the seller has a 22nd Nov deadline and I’m not back in the UK until 20th - so that might just have to be a missed opportunity

V8 Bob - I’d seen your ad and may reach out about it.

MPx - always good to come across another lotus fan boy! I hadn’t ruled out the petrol but was struggling to find a decent example. What happened with yours when they stopped working?

Personally, I do prefer the presence of the L405 and if I could find one for the money that would be my option. I guess my conundrum is my budget gives me access to most/potentially best of the L322 market and the bottom/entry of the L405 market.

Million dollar question - is a £20k L405 likely to be any more unreliable than a £20k L322?

You asked what went wrong.

My first one was rarely entirely right in the 4 years I had it - amazing how well they go when wounded. The worst mechanical issues were with the gearbox, and then cooling system, and then gearbox, and did I mention the gearbox - stranded me quite a few times, but the real frustrations were with the electronics which serially went wrong for a pasttime, and there's an awful lot of electronics from final stage resisters, to AV, to the the main central screen, wing mirrors, seat controls, etc.

The 4.2 SC was perfect for 5 years - nothing went wrong at all.

The 5.0SC was absolutely great for 4 years (just slight ag with the aircon one time) but then the chains went at about 108k miles (actually just the rh bank chain). Managed to offload it (fully disclosed!) on here and swapped to the SVAD. So far "the best car in the world"!

I'd say you've got a better chance of reliability with a fully sorted late L322 than an early (and cheap) L405. IMO for all manufacturers it always takes a MY change or two to sort some of the early gremlins on a new line. On the other hand the L322 is old and can do a good job of hiding its tin worm issues so ideally get a good look underneath any that you fancy. But if you prefer the L405 then just go for it... Mike - MPx

2017 5.0 V8 Supercharged SVAutobigraphy Dynamic SVO Palette Grey (2021-...)
2012 5.0 V8 Supercharged Autoboigraphy Orkney Grey (2017-2021)
2007 4.2 V8 Supercharged Vogue SE Tonga Green (2012-2017)
2002 4.4 V8 Vogue Bonnatti Grey (2008-2012)

Just from a timing perspective…. The last of the L322 is about 11 years old now. I’m sure it will end up a modern classic. I’d get an L322, just to have one. You can still get an L405 after, and still be of the same age one would have been had you got one now. I missed a few cars that I wished I’d had before they got too old,(or expensive 🤣) Escort RS Turbo… Audi Quattro…. Etc etc.

 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Thanks Mike, you’re really selling the Range Rover dream here

mjdronfield very good point re L322!

Great insight and thanks for sharing. Looks like I’ve got another week of holidays having a search of classifieds and doing some more research.

I’m 95% sure I’ll start with a 4.4 TDV8 L322 and see how I get on.

When looking at reliability on cars that are 80,000 miles or 10+ years old, consider that anything baked into the design is 99% likely to have already gone wrong and been rectified by that age. On that note you can probably expect similar reliability from both models if they have been properly cared for.

It is possible to assume that 322s are less reliable as there are generally more threads on faults and maintenance, but that ignores the fact that a lot of 322 owners buy them because its possible to get a lot of car for a little money, and they keep that cost lo by doing their own maintenance. Many 405 owners will be under manufacturers or extended warranty and will generally just hand the car to the garage to get things done without needing to post about it. Others will simply accept that based on the high cost of a car, a few k a year in maintenance is acceptable (the new price of my car was about £105k , so if it costs 2-3% of the each year to keep it in tip top condition thats a cost Im willing to bear).

One big difference between the 2 models: the 322 launched in 2001, the 405 in 2012. If you go with an early model 405, you are buying an 11 year old design. If you go for a late model 322 you are buying a 22 years old design thats had tweaks and updates along the way.

JayGee wrote:

For that budget I'd go for an L322. £20k for a mint low miler and £5k as a contingency fund. £25k seems a bit low for a 'sorted' L405.

To the OP, have you driven both the L405 and L322? 2012 4.4 TDV8 Westminster - Baltic Blue, Jet interior
1997 P38 2.5 DSE auto & 1998 P38 2.5 DT Manual
1988 Vogue 3.5 EFI - Manual, gone.
2004 Volvo C70 2.0T convertible, had since new.
2007 Mazda MX-5 2.0 Sport Roadster/Coupé, had since new.
2024 Mini Cooper S cabrio, JCW kit, 2.0, DCT auto

Stuart- wrote:

JayGee wrote:

For that budget I'd go for an L322. £20k for a mint low miler and £5k as a contingency fund. £25k seems a bit low for a 'sorted' L405.

I've had both, and I agree with the chap above. But I don't think you need to pay £20k.

.

Looking at some of the cars advertised on here, it's my view that you don't need to pay £20k for a very good L322 anymore. There's no point in buying something overpriced. Paying more doesn't mean better, always. But these things are subjective, we offered the chap our respective opinions and he'll make his own mind up.

If I was looking to spend under £20k, and having £5k+ in a slush fund, I'd be buying a nice late model L322 and not an early L405 for £5k more.

When I was looking for my L405 last year, entry-level was about £30-£35k, but everything I looked at for this price wasn't up to scratch. I ended up spending somewhat more. But there are a lot of nice L322s out there, and some of the ones that crop up on here are great. I bought the one I had off a chap on the forum, and sold it to a chap on the forum when it was time for it to go. Folk who inhabit the site here are far better informed than the average Joe, so by definition one would hope better cared for cars can be had. 2017 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography in black
2018 D300 SE Velar in champagne
Spiffing wheel centre caps, L322 sill repair panels, etc

Again all really valid comments - cheers.

I’ve driven both L322 and L405 albeit in 6 cylinder variants, not 8.

My statement about spending £20k on a 322 has perhaps been taken out of context. I guess what I was trying to articulate was my theoretical budget gives me a broader choice of 322s vs the bottom end of the 405 market. You’re right though, more expensive doesn’t necessarily mean better and I’d buy the absolute best car I can get for my budget.

Ideally I’d like one from the forum and feel I’ve ended up with “better” cars having done this with the Lotus forums previously.

If there’s anyone local ish to the East Yorkshire area who has a 4.4 322 that would show me around for a nosey that would be appreciated!