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jtq4u

Member Since: 23 Aug 2023
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 37

2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Stornoway Grey

ODB PID for DPF soot level

Hi All,

I am thinking of making a dedicated gauge to show the soot grams in the DPF (perhaps to replace the analog clock). I will do this using an arduino OBD shield. However to make it I'll need to know the vehicle specific OBD PID for the soot data. Has anyone found out this sort of information before?

I may have to task my son (who likes hacking things) with sniffing the canbus or bluetooth data whilst my carScanner app is requesting said data otherwise. I hope in which case I will be able to see the PID it uses. I am guessing it will be in the 21 or 22 group of PIDs.

But before I go to lots of effort to extract 'the secret' I wondered if there are any OBD geeks on here who might already have the answer

James

23rd Aug 2023 10:50am

jtq4u

Member Since: 23 Aug 2023
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 37

OK everyone I am excited to say I have found out the PID. What I did is install a car OBD emulator (which makes my laptop pretend to be a car with an OBD socket)
https://github.com/Ircama/ELM327-emulator
I then connected to it from CarScanner on my phone and got it to try and display the soot information.. and here is what the laptop saw:
2023-08-23 16:30:23,815 - root - DEBUG - Received 'ATSH7E0'
2023-08-23 16:30:23,816 - root - DEBUG - Handling: 'ATSH7E0', header '7E0', ECU '7E0'
2023-08-23 16:30:23,816 - root - DEBUG - Description: AT SET HEADER, PID AT_SET_HEADER (ATSH7E0)
2023-08-23 16:30:23,817 - root - DEBUG - Set HEADER to <7E0>
2023-08-23 16:30:23,817 - root - DEBUG - Processing: '<writeln>OK</writeln>'
2023-08-23 16:30:23,817 - root - DEBUG - Write: 'OK\r\r>'
2023-08-23 16:30:23,827 - root - DEBUG - Received '22042C'
And googling 22042C shows that some other cars also use 22042C for soot filter. So next step is to get the car to give back the data from an ODB teminal, before making something in hardware with an arduino.

23rd Aug 2023 3:43pm

DrRob

Member Since: 16 Apr 2015
Location: Petersfield, Hampshire
Posts: 4302

2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Buckingham Blue

Gone to a good home: 2011 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Buckingham Blue with Ivory and clear glass = "Rory"
2025MY Defender D350 90 in Silicon Silver on coils
1974 Series 3 Lightweight = "Millie"
Many, many other Landies over the years
My preferred specialist: www.glenrands.co.uk
--------------------------------------------------

24th Aug 2023 7:21am

Baltic Blue

Member Since: 13 Aug 2015
Location: North Wales
Posts: 3765

2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Baltic Blue

Very clever, watching with interest.
Mike. G reg 2.5VM Vogue Portofino red 1991- 1999
V reg 2.5td P38 Rioja red 1999- 2006
53 reg td6 Vogue Oslo blue 2006- 2015
11 reg 4.4 TdV8 Vogue SE. Baltic blue 2015- date.
https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic56162...tty+affair

24th Aug 2023 7:56am

JayGee

Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 3203

2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Why do you need to monitor the soot level unless you have a fault? 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

24th Aug 2023 8:00am

Baltic Blue

Member Since: 13 Aug 2015
Location: North Wales
Posts: 3765

I think of it as DPF management and use the iid at least once every couple of weeks to check soot concentration, then either take it out for a long run or force a regen before it alarms.
Mike. G reg 2.5VM Vogue Portofino red 1991- 1999
V reg 2.5td P38 Rioja red 1999- 2006
53 reg td6 Vogue Oslo blue 2006- 2015
11 reg 4.4 TdV8 Vogue SE. Baltic blue 2015- date.
https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic56162...tty+affair

24th Aug 2023 8:15am

JayGee

Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 3203

I leave my DPF to manage itself. Never had a warning light in 2 years. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

24th Aug 2023 8:46am

jtq4u

Member Since: 23 Aug 2023
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 37

I am thinking I might be able to trick the car into displaying the soot level instead of the temperature outside, when button is pressed. That might be cool

25th Aug 2023 6:19pm

fisha

Member Since: 25 Sep 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1350

2015 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Aruba

Was thinking about the temp thing on the display - would that work?

I imagine that when you press the button, you would read the soot PID code, and re-inject a PID to display a value that would show on the temp display on the dash … but surely it would quickly be over-written by the next time the external temp itself injects its temp reading back into the bus ???

Personally, I think some sort of tiny rgb indicator could be used … so it’d sit at green, and gradually change to amber as the soot level builds, reaches red when it needs a regen, and flashes red when it’s actually doing a re-gen before resetting back to green.

Also, have you looked at the Powerful video about sniffing the canbus on the defender ? Really interesting … and given that you think you know the PID, it would be interesting to see that singled out.

Since getting my L405, its a project that’s been idling away in my mind more and more. V8 or else ...

14th Sep 2023 9:15pm

garyRR

Member Since: 13 Mar 2021
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 1465

JayGee wrote:
Why do you need to monitor the soot level unless you have a fault?

My thoughts also. Much like any other of the car's monitoring systems, they're designed to only let you know when there's a problem, otherwise the dash would look like a power station control room. 2015 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 SDV8

15th Sep 2023 7:05am

jtq4u

Member Since: 23 Aug 2023
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 37

Perhaps you are right we don't need to know, though across the various Range Rover forums I am on I see so many people having issues with their DPFs. A lot stem from the failed Regens - as of course the vehicle doesn't know when a journey is going to be long or not. If we knew when the dpf was approaching full and triggered the regen at the start of said journey there would be a lot less failed regens.

Since I posted, my L322 has now decided it needs a service - after just 3000 miles since I changed the oil. This is apparently down to the number of regens.
I wonder if the car is of course correct in the amount of dilution to the oil - so I am about to post off today a sample of oil for analysis at the lab. I wonder if it really is already diluted with 7% diesel. we will see!

15th Sep 2023 2:20pm

jtq4u

Member Since: 23 Aug 2023
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 37

fisha wrote:
Was thinking about the temp thing on the display - would that work?

I imagine that when you press the button, you would read the soot PID code, and re-inject a PID to display a value that would show on the temp display on the dash … but surely it would quickly be over-written by the next time the external temp itself injects its temp reading back into the bus ???

Personally, I think some sort of tiny rgb indicator could be used … so it’d sit at green, and gradually change to amber as the soot level builds, reaches red when it needs a regen, and flashes red when it’s actually doing a re-gen before resetting back to green.

Also, have you looked at the Powerful video about sniffing the canbus on the defender ? Really interesting … and given that you think you know the PID, it would be interesting to see that singled out.

Since getting my L405, its a project that’s been idling away in my mind more and more.

Yeah you might be right that a seperate guage would be best. My other thought was to replace the analog clock with one - as I am happy with the digital display one, and the extra one in my android-auto display that I replaced the top-dash vents with.

If i were using the temperature display, I was planning to intercept it at the temperature variable resistor it self (simulate temperature resistances).. so that in fact the origional method of inserting the messages on the bus remained.

15th Sep 2023 2:23pm

JayGee

Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 3203

' failed ' regens only happen if you have a fault and the system doesn't start it. Partial regens are fine as it removes some soot load. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

15th Sep 2023 2:55pm

fisha

Member Since: 25 Sep 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1350

Agreed but on the L405 each attempt appears to decrement the service interval irrespective of whether it completed. Thus the time between services plummets. V8 or else ...

15th Sep 2023 4:32pm

jtq4u

Member Since: 23 Aug 2023
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 37

JayGee wrote:
' failed ' regens only happen if you have a fault and the system doesn't start it. Partial regens are fine as it removes some soot load.

I am not sure if they count as partial if they get aborted during the preheat phase, from my observations I think not (which would make sense as they achieved nothing). It takes a reasonable amount of time after the beginning of the regen before the soot starts going down. Once it goes down it goes down pretty fast.

I have some partial, some successful, but a lot more requested. The delta between requested and (partial+successful) I assume to be the ones where I have arrived at work before the soot started going down.

All regens, partial, complete.. or aborted before the soot count goes down, cause the oil dilution. The ones that are fruitless (we didn't get to the soot burning temperature) are of course still squirting fuel on the exhaust stroke.. and leaking diesel into the sump.. Therefor if you take a lot of journeys that are not long enough for the pre-heat then you will end up with a lot of wasted dilution, as the car doesn't realise the journey isn't going to be far enough.

even worse sometimes the journey might have been long enough but the soot level reached the magic number (about 22g/m) towards the end of the journey. If I had requested it early (say when it was at 17g/m) at the start of the journey then it would have been able to complete, or at least get some partial success. A non informed choice of time to start regen is always going to lead to more fruitless regens.

I think it is less critical with newer cars, as there is more capacity in the DPF, but as the DPF ages and capacity reduces they need more frequent regens.. which gives more opportunity for badly timed ones.

Also partial regens are going to cause more frequent oil changes too.. as each regen takes the same amount of fuel to pre-heat the dpf. So if you require two partials to acheive full regeneration you will pre-heat twice and leak double the fuel into the sump.

Therefor if the 12,000 mile service interval is based on all successful regens, we could potentially with a 3,000 mile service interval if you have 50% badly timed regens and another 50% partials. (so 1 pre-heats needed for a single full regen).

15th Sep 2023 5:58pm

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