landy95 wrote:

Are AT tyres classed as standard spec on an l322 or do you need to let your insurance company know? I am thinking of getting some but if it puts insurance up i will give them a miss.

Couple of tests worth reading for AT3 fans...
https://www.thetyrelab.com/autobild/allround/2018/235-60-r18/suv/
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2018-A...e-Test.htm
IMO unless you need off road ability ( Wet grass and mud) on a regular basis the wet road braking performance is too poor for mainly road use. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Those 2 reviews are rather worrying!
I was quite shocked by my emergency stop on a damp road which prompted this post. There was squealing and not loss of control, but longer braking distance than I expected.
From those reviews it looks like dry braking isn’t any better.
Food for thought.
Probably will replace them before the winter.

There is no way with current tyre technology to build a tyre that is equally good on and off road. Even the Pirelli all season tyres are a bit of a compromise compared to pure summer and winter tyres. The only time IME when you need a tyre to not let you down is in an emergency wet braking situation on the road and this is also where differences between cheap and expensive tyres of any type show. In almost all other situations all tyres perform equally safely at normal road speeds and if they let go you are going too fast for the road conditions. More than most other cars you have extra responsibility to other road users when you are in control of 2.7t of moving metal. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Absolutely this @JayGee. Tyres are always a compromise; wear, dry grip, wet grip, aquaplane resistance, rolling resistance, price, lifespan, comfort, etc etc. For the average user who never sees snow or slush then a set of mild all seasons will be best but would probably be fine on a set of summers, for some who use them in deeper winter/snow/harsh conditions then full winters will be best for winter, and if you use them off road a lot then a set of all terrains may be good. But the full winters would be too soft in summer and wear quickly, and the sidewalls will be softer, while if you have the all terrains you will definitely suffer on the road if you have an occasion to need maximum grip (like an emergency stop or avoidance procedure on wet roads). However, I alluded to this in another thread; the weight of the FFRR can work in its favour by putting more pressure on the tyres which can help with grip. A 2t pickup may actually not get as much grip from the tyre as the 2.7T FFRR, especially given the lack of weight over the. rear end. However, all things being equal the better tyre will still be better. For me I really like the look of a set of AT's on the L322, but I don't fit tyres to my cars for looks, and that means two sets of wheels with a set of mild AS's for summer with another pair fitted with full blown winters will be by far and away the best option. I think the biggest appeal of the grabbers to most L322 owners is the fact they're 25-30% cheaper than anything else, especially in 20".

Your point about having responsibility to other road users is one I wish more drivers took. I drive my fast cars hard, but then I also spend money on fitting the stickiest tyres I can (at the expense of longevity) and fit the best pads and biggest discs I can with the brakes too. As a result I can slow the Impreza now from 100+ to zero faster than a stock one can slow to zero from 60. Day to day you can drive around poor brakes and tyres, but if a deer or child jumps out on you then that's where you really notice the differences in these parts.

I'd agree that as far as traction goes (moving from a standstill ) then the extra weight of an L322 will help but once in motion you are now dealing with the extra kinetic energy of a larger moving mass so this may well cancel it out? I'm sure there are some good formulas out there to work this out. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

There are but I can't remember them seeing as I haven't used them in nearly twenty years (I did Auto mech eng at uni). It's not a straightforward thing, but a soft tyre will get overwhelmed at a certain point and lose grip with the more weight that you apply because the surface is essentially shearing off, while the hard tyre will take longer to get into its operating window. Based on a couple of uni projects and the time I spent with Conti and Michelin with their MTB tyres, an L322 will likely get more grip from a hard compound tyre like an AT than a lighter car will, even taking into account it's heavier mass to slow. The reason being is that the harder tyre on a lighter car will just slide on the surface of the road whereas the heavier car will push it more into the surface irregularities which will increase the coefficient of friction. However, the lack of surface area on an AT and the deep and wide grooves which allow the blocks to flex and dig in off road will always limit the maximum grip it has on a sealed surface. I think if I was forever up dirt tracks on a daily/weekly basis I'd probably be able to stomach the downsides on tarmac, but for me those opportunities are rare so I'd be driving round on a compromise for more than 95% of my driving. For that I'd rather take the compromise on dirt and go slower/pick easier lines etc than compromise almost all my driving for those few occasions. Even for the average person in a normal car I can see why full blown winters are considered too much of a compromise, especially if you're in the city. Again, my compromise is on the warmer days in winter given how much time I spend driving icy/slushy/snow covered roads rather than the other way round.

There is also the thing with these cars that the CoG is quite high and that if you went sticky enough on the tyre you could probably roll it onto its roof, so there'll be a point where it becomes a diminishing return by going stickier. Similarly, if the brakes are your limiting factor rather than grip, there's no point going above this threshold in the name of increasing performance. Is the AT above or below this line, and by how much? I've absolutely no idea, but I suspect it'll be below it, stock Pirellis somewhere in the middle and some of the latest UHP SUV tyres will be well above it. It's fine if you've got stiff suspension to control the body but these things don't, and that's why we like them!

madnessgonemad wrote:

Which 19” wheels do you have on your Westie?

The only ones which can fit over the 6-Pot Brembos!

 The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom

Now that's the kind of road you need off road tyres. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Must say, I've been running GG A/T's for many years and have never found them to be 'wanting' on dry or wet tarmac. That said, I don't drive the L322 like I do my Audi(s)......  The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom

Never had any problems with mine.

Most people will never have any tyre problems no matter what they fit just as most people will never need their ABS, seatbelts or airbags. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

PeteT80 wrote:

Never had any problems with mine.

It was from green laning last November near Wisbech