Hi all,

Purchased my 5.0 S/C from a previous owner on this forum, purchased it knowing it had an issue with both banks running rich (P0172 / P0175). No driveability issues.

I've been monitoring any number of sensors to look out for anything off, it all seems to be within spec. Nonetheless, I have replaced MAF & MAP sensors as well as the throttle body (the plate was rattling so generally unrelated).

There is clearly an issue as the fuel trims (after about 10 minutes warm up) will eventually reach the maximum -31 STFT & -25 LTFT when idling.

Upon carrying out a service the other day I noticed a strong smell of fuel vapour when extracting the oil. I transferred the oil to a container and it smelt like I was at a petrol station, it was very strong.

After replacing the oil / filter I started the car up & noticed almost immediately with fresh oil the STFTs went all the way to +25 / 31 (correcting). Now it hasn't taken long since changing the oil (maybe 50 miles?) to notice the trims have swung back to full negative and there are pending rich codes.

Long story short, fuel is getting into the oil. I've used the GAP Tool to look at the injector pulse widths & I can't see any specific injector being backed right off by the ECM to indicate its 'stuck'. I am also getting no misfires during a drive cycle, even when giving it all the beans.

Fuel pressure seems to be within spec on the high side, desired & actuals follow each other as expected. I do have an odd 'desired' reading at idle sometimes though. Desired is 1450PSI~ whereas actual is around 800-900PSI~. Actual values seem to be 'normal' readings to me.

I'm suspecting injectors or fuel pumps at this point. The car is on 116k so is likely running originals, no evidence of them ever having been changed. Can the HPFPs fail (leak internally) whilst still performing as expected?

If I do have a stuck open injector, would I see evidence when pulling the plugs?

Thanks to anyone who manages to get through this essay

I’d pull the plugs first as a quick check to see inside the cylinder.

If it’s over fuelling, it’ll either be soaked wet or choked in carbon. Loads of info online about looking at how plugs are and what they indicate.

Unusual though that both banks are rich … which to me would indicate a common issue rather than single injector leak.

The engine should still run if you disconnect a sensor, albeit throwing an error. It might be worth disconnecting 1 at a time and seeing whether the trims return to normal. For example, disconnect the MaF and the system should calculate based on the rest of the data it sees.

If disconnecting a sensor returns the trims towards normal you’ll know that sensor is off.

Past experience with throttle bodies and in particular MAF is that if it isnt genuine it isn’t worth fitting. Been there bought the picture, but it’s only the genuine which are accurate enough. V8 or else ...

I would put money on it being the HPFP's don't know if they can leak internally but if they do it could get straight into the oil, not sure why it would run rich either but they are a weak spot and known to fail... If you are not getting the pressure requested then that's another indication....

I searched the US forums for the HPFP's when I had issues with them, they have lots more S/C's than we do... also try the Jaguar forums over here and in the US....

Good luck... Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

Thanks both for the sanity check.

I'll pull the plugs to check for any evidence on the injector side, but as mentioned with it being both banks having an injector out on each is unlikely!

I'll have to find someone localish who is willing to fit supplied parts as 'genuine' pumps/injectors (depending on culprit) with an LR sticker on aren't cheap!

I should have mentioned that part of why I suspect the pumps is because when I block off the part load breather for a short while the trims reduce from -30 down to single +/-. Unless an injector is fully open & just dumping fuel into the cylinder and down into the pan (I'd suspect other symptoms if this were the case) then the fuel in the oil must be getting introduced by the pumps which is what some of the US lot suspect in their cases. The trouble with these sorts of issues is that those experiencing them don't always come back to confirm what the issue was (probably because they just sold it )

Search eBay for JAGUAR XF XJ XK LAND RANGE ROVER SPORT DISCOVERY HIGH PRESSURE FUEL PUMP 5.0

They are mostly genuine parts, the ones I removed from mine had FoMoCo stamped on them

Around £150 each so not too bad and a lot less than the dealer, can't see any garage will complain about them...

It is a long job changing them so labour will be your highest cost....

Some info here....

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic56053-15.html

and use new bolts....!!

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic55541-210.html

Good luck.... Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

Thanks Pete,

I've messaged the store on eBay you linked me to yesterday, requesting some info on if/when they'll have 2x pumps available to purchase - if not, I'll bite the bullet on some of the other listings.

Hopefully I can find someone who has done them before to get a reasonable estimate. I can put my hands to most things but looking at your earlier posts its definitely outside my area of capability!

Thanks again.

If you can't find anyone local you are only a couple of hours from our very own Craig at Cam Tech...

https://www.cam-tech-landrover.co.uk/contact-us/ Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

Finally had time to pull plugs from 2, 4, 6 & 8 before I was summoned inside.

2 & 6 look normal-ish to me whereas 4 & 8 are rather black/wet.

I'll pull the other bank tomorrow weather permitting to see how they appear.

These plugs have been in roughly 18,000 miles.

To the more initiated out there, what would you make of 4 & 8?

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Looks to me like they weren't done up tight enough...

The ceramic centre post looks a decentish colour...  Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

They didn't seem overly loose but not really that tight either.

That bank is back in now and tightened up to 20Nm using the digital wrench I've got - anything to prevent me it up somehow.

Do you think the condition of 4 & 8 could be caused by a leaky injector (if the tightness isn't a factor)?

I'll post back how the other bank looks tomorrow, IF those look more on the normal side I guess it could point to 4 & 8 injectors being bad & the excess fuel leaking down into the pan. On some occasions when the car is warm and I try to restart it, its very hesitant and the revs climb slowly until it sorts itself out (usually within 10-15 secs).

Typical that the fuel in oil issue could be caused by two of the most expensive parts of the fuelling system

While I have read that injector failure is commonish with these engines as well... Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

I was about to say the same as Pete (Haylands) - injector failure on the 5.0 isn’t undocumented and would explain over fueling as 4 and 8 are on opposite banks.

David. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 5.0 SC Autobiography in Indus Silver with Jet/Ivory Interior
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

I thought JLR adopted ISO standard for the AJ133 which puts 4 & 8 on the same bank?

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Would it not be worth getting the injectors tested out of the engine...? Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

I had thought about it but apparently by the time you've gone through getting them out & tested the cost isn't far off just replacing with new.

I'll certainly ask the question of both of them again to see what they each recommend. Allegedly, any decent independent will have tools to test the injector balance on a GDI without removal to pinpoint a culprit so I am hoping that is an option as well!