So the "experts" could have the switch from IC to EV right at this moment of time "

What if, in 10 years time it transpires that they gout it wrong ?

No, we must continue to have a choice - with the take up of EV use pollution from road transport will decrease massively. Put together with other environmental protection measure nature will take care of it - nature is far greater than man.

The thing is, there appears to be a misconception that all vehicles will be BEV's by <insert_random_point_in_time> there will be all the existing ICE / Hybrid vehicles still on the road, being kept running so the only way to get them off the roads is with (IMO) punitive taxation - look how well that works with things like smoking etc....
Every day I see older vehicles on the roads (as in last century models) in good condition and daily runners, they're a cheap way for people to get around and I suspect, won't be given up without a fight. Even the threat of rolling power cuts has causes some people to see the light (ha!) and BEV sales have been dampened somewhat.

The one area I thought would see BEV's infiltrate is the Motab sector, now I don't know why but there doesn't seem to be any interest in them whatsoever from the 'free car brigade' - maybe they're only available with additional payments?

They are available on Motability but it takes all of your allowance and sometimes even more. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

SamThomas wrote:

So the "experts" could have the switch from IC to EV right at this moment of time "

What if, in 10 years time it transpires that they gout it wrong ?

Quote:

No, we must continue to have a choice - with the take up of EV use pollution from road transport will decrease massively.

Quote:

Put together with other environmental protection measure nature will take care of it - nature is far greater than man.

I can't afford a new EV and no EV can do what I bought my Range Rover for.

I guess thats what people said years ago when the car was first invented, their trusty horses getting them through. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Another issue with Hydrogen thats just popped up:-

Made exclusively with renewable power, green hydrogen is emerging as a promising alternative to polluting fossil fuels. But this much-touted fuel of the future may have a pitfall.

Some scientists say the lack of data on leaks and the potential harm they could cause is a blind spot for the nascent industry.

At least four studies published this year say hydrogen loses its environmental edge when it seeps into the atmosphere. This is because it reduces the concentration of molecules that destroy the greenhouse gases already there, potentially contributing to global warming.

If even 10 per cent leaks during its production, transportation, storage or use, the benefits of using green hydrogen over fossil fuels would be completely wiped out, two scientists told Reuters.

They say the lack of technology for monitoring hydrogen leaks means there is a data gap, and more research is needed to calculate its net impact on global warming before final investment decisions are taken.

Yet governments and energy companies are lining up big bets on green hydrogen. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

I'd be interested in who is funding these particular scientists - there are groups with vested interests that fund a lot of this research, a bit like the money behind the 'green' lobbyists, it's generally well hidden but (usually) goes back to either an industry with an agenda (Lithium battery producers, as an example) or the usual international suspects seeking to skew opinion, sometimes for their own gain, sometimes just for sh!ts & giggles.

Hydrogen is a constituent of air, admittedly not much as a percentage, but in volume, I'd say "there's a fair bit of it" all around us, there is far more to be concerned about in old refrigeration systems around the world, from window rattlers to blast freezers with everything in between, ships still use R22 as do a lot of old building systems, all quietly rotting away and releasing a steady stream of Ozone depleting gases. Cars in the main use R134A or R1234YF, neither of which are particularly bad, new systems coming in use highly compressed CO2 - again, a constituent of air, to get the same amount of cooling, the volume of refrigerant is many times that of say, R134A - but no-one is whining about how that being re-released every time a vehicle with it has a front-end impact...

Like pippi mongstocking (Thunberg) most of the doom-mongers target the low hanging fruit, instead of pressuring the Chinese to stop building coal fired power stations for example, or India to clean up their vehicle emissions - globally, it'd be far more benefit than the UK and most of Europe changing to non fossil fuel vehicles. This sort of stuff always makes me think back to the 'Lead in petrol' saga, it cost many private individuals a fortune in repairs and modifications yet only reduced the lead pollution by 2%

The greatest vested interests are the fossil fuel companies who will loose out in catastrophic ways in a move to EV's and Hydrogen.
If we all converted to hydrogen power the estimated % loss may be small but the total volume entering the atmosphere would be huge - we are talking way, way more hydrogen by volume than IC gasses. There is no hydrogen 'around us' as being lighter than air it rises to the upper atmosphere.
Not sure where you got the 2% figure from for lead reduction in the atmosphere after lead was banned in petrol - can you provide a link. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

It was a long time ago, I read it in print, way before everything was regurgitated on screen, I think it was also mentioned on R4 some years after the event. It stuck in my mind as being a ridiculous figure for all the fuss and cost. It wasn't just in the atmosphere, it was total Lead pollution - If you can remember the shrieking about Lead lying at the sides of the roads, just waiting for kids to stick their fingers in it...

I'm not sure air stratifies like that, the density changes, sure, but I don't think the higher atomic table ones sit up against the stratosphere and the lower ones hug the ground.

ETA - just had a quick browse, it appears that air is 'mixed' by the wind and lighter particles are slowed down from rising by gravity - except Helium which can & does escape the atmosphere.

Watch this in its entirety and then say it’s not the way forward.

Also the fact that hydrogen is taken from the air I can’t see how a leak is an issue. Exhaust is water/oxygen from what I’ve been told. Looks like a real option to me given some investment.
There’s meant to be a battery factory being built near Chester but it seems no one will invest the £800b it’s gonna cost coz there’s no confidence it’s the way forward.

I have watched it a while ago and as per your request, it's not the way forward!

Hydrogen doesnt come from air, it comes from gas or water usually, the problem being that to get it from gas or water it takes 3 times the energy that it produces when used. To use it in the way that JCB are doing gives an efficiency of less than 30% so in cost terms it's extremely expensive. Hydrogen is probably a solution for farms and construction but not for road going vehicles. Consider the electroliser powered by wind turbine, you could have 3 x the amount of electricity that you can use directly in EV's. People are already saying our infrastructure cant cope with electricity to power EV's, if we attempt the Hydrogen route you ramp that up a further 3 times.

The gigafactory in the West Midlands is set for production in 2025 which suggests there is confidence in the EV market and rightly so.

https://ukgigafactory.com/ BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

You are missing the point that wind, solar and nuclear produce electricity when it is not needed. So although electrolysis may be inefficient it is 30% rather than zero.
Effectively it is a by product. letters not necessarily in the right order

Not really missing the point. There’s a lot of electricity storage systems attached to the grid, electric mountain in Wales, many EV’s and a lot of home storage batteries too. These can store the electricity when not needed and release it when it is. Nuclear power can be modulated up or down as demand requires it so 30% is not good efficiency for use of electricity. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

AJGalaxy2012 wrote:

SamThomas wrote:

So the "experts" could have the switch from IC to EV right at this moment of time "

What if, in 10 years time it transpires that they gout it wrong ?

But what if in 10 years time it transpires they were right and we should done even more to stop the use of ICE?

Quote:

No, we must continue to have a choice - with the take up of EV use pollution from road transport will decrease massively.

This is very true and when they get the lorries on motorways powered by electric that would make a huge drop in pollution.

Quote:

Put together with other environmental protection measure nature will take care of it - nature is far greater than man.

Absolutely it will as it is doing now with freak storms, flooding, temperature increases etc, all of it damaging to the mankind.