So having owned a D4 for several years, it’s time to move to more comfort. I have three dogs so the RRS is not an option, I need the load space.

There is this MY2015 FFRR w 122150 km:s on the clock on auction that will probably sell well below market price, perhaps more than 10 kEUR lower. Very well equipped and in decent shape.

The catch? The last service was in January 2019 at 79000 km:s.

What to do? Buy, make two or three early oil changes and keep fingers crossed or just walk away? Oh, did I mention it’s a TDV6…

On Pistonheads, we’d call that a “Brave Pill”.
It’s a hard one to swallow unless it’s more like 20K below book, and even then……
The fact that it’s a TDV6 means little really, but it’s going to need a lot of TLC service-wise and possibly a chunk of money spent somewhere along the line, plus 2015 is in the realm of front knuckle joint failure too. I’d walk, and spend more money on something with a solid history.

There’s no such thing as a “bargain” FFRR. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

I would not think that a FFRR has any more load space than a RRS, especially when compared to a Discovery.

If you take a punt you may be lucky, but personally, I would walk away.

It's worth looking into TDV6 crankshaft failure problems before spending your cash

@cass:

There’s a survey on here that proves it’s an internet myth, most are trouble-free. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

👍Gremlin500…

An internet myth? I'm afraid to say, that's completely wrong.

It's happened to me with my TDV6!

Here's a photo I took of a bunch of crankshafts under a bench all from S/TDV6 (306DT) engines from the guys that rebuilt mine....

Click image to enlarge

Some ≠ most
How many cranks have failed?
How many were produced?

I will say the correct specification of engine oil makes a huge difference to the longevity of any engine and especially the 3.0l TDV6

Absolutely. I don't believe anyone is claiming 'most'? The risk is low considering the number of cars on the road. However, branding it as an 'internet myth' is completely inaccurate. It is real risk and trust me, it isn't nice when it happens to you.

When I bought mine, I knew about the issue and I always thought "I'll be fine, I'm buying a good example, fully serviced by main agents and reputable independents". Unfortunately this was not to be the case.

Many vehicles which have been cared for by enthusiasts with tender loving care using correct specification fluids have failed for no apparent reason.

It has been known for this engine to fail when vehicles have been reversed off the transporter at the main dealers when new.

PS. I used to be of the opinion that the issue would be through lack of adequate servicing. It used to make me feel better and more confident in my own vehicle, until it happened to me... Kev

2014 L405 RR Vogue SE 4.4 SDV8 in Corris Grey
2010 L320 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6 in Stornoway Grey

I've mentioned it before, maybe elsewhere TBH, not all dealers use the correct specification oil, grade, yes, specification - not always. That is from first-hand experience, not second-hand hearsay. Part of the specification of oil relates to the molecular size, that is essentially the distance the oil causes metal parts 'float' on other metal parts, get it wrong and there are issues.

Your example of engines failing coming off the transporter are not unusual - many vehicles have (very) early life failures, I saw one today where a transmission failed on a new vehicle that the customer had waited three months for, now waiting an indeterminate amount of time as the parts are on backorder and the brand I now work for won't do 'line pinch'.

I don't doubt with anything you've said there Phoenix. I'm sure everything you have said there is true.

My point is, like all things in life, there is a risk. Like many other owners, I assessed the risk and took it. Unfortunately for me, I was one of the unlucky ones. Cest la vie. Kev

2014 L405 RR Vogue SE 4.4 SDV8 in Corris Grey
2010 L320 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6 in Stornoway Grey

@knwatkins:

“an internet myth” meaning a lot go bang at some point, which may not be true, we need statistics, like these:

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic54027...ft+failure

A picture of a pile of broken crankshafts is alarming, but how do we know which brand of vehicle let alone which engine they came from? Even so, that pile might represent a drop in the ocean, we just don’t know, one way or the other, and JLR aren’t going to give us the stats. Sorry for your misfortune but it may have affected your viewpoint slightly?

I’m not saying the engine is bombproof, and it may need an extra bit of TLC. It would be interesting to know the stats as to what % of engines failed and in which years and if its becoming more rare now that effects of dilution are better understood and modifications to bearing shells or other contributing factors have been made.

Perhaps we will never know  “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

Absolutely Gremlin, we will never know and I agree we need statistics to fully understand the risk.

Like you, I thought I understood the risk but let's face it - none of us do in the absence of the real numbers.

That picture of crankshafts are all from T/SDV6 engines, rebuilt over a period of around about 9 months. I took the picture myself. Kev

2014 L405 RR Vogue SE 4.4 SDV8 in Corris Grey
2010 L320 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6 in Stornoway Grey

Either way, if you don’t want the worry get one with a different engine. It’s no good saying it’s this percentage or that percentage if you are worrying every time you drive it. It’s happened to some… that’s all folk need to hear sometimes, and I’m probably one of them… no good saying it only affects 5% for eg, if yours is one of the 5%. I know these things are not often widespread and that folk only tend to post stuff on the internet when somethings broken, but that’s no consolation when your car turns into a very expensive paper weight.

I skipped the 3.6 TDV8 for the same reason. Hundreds of thousands don’t have issues but knowing my luck 🤣….

Just my 2p…

 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

knwatkins wrote:

I don't doubt with anything you've said there Phoenix. I'm sure everything you have said there is true.

My point is, like all things in life, there is a risk. Like many other owners, I assessed the risk and took it. Unfortunately for me, I was one of the unlucky ones. Cest la vie.