Good Morning All,

After trouble free 20k miles over the last couple of years I have started experiencing a couple of issues. The car has now done 111k miles in total and has regular oil changes at around 6k miles. Of the 20k miles over that last two years around 15k were long distance motorway trips across Europe with each trip covering around 1,500 miles over a 24 hour period on motorways with speeds between 80 and 130 mph, the latter in Germany.

1. The car drives normally from startup until it warms up to temperature, then there is a distinct but intermittent howling from the engine at around 1200 to 1300 revs in normal driving in town that varies with engine speed / load. The howling starts and stops as the car is driven and is not constant. I suspect it is the fan causing the noise. There is no such noise when driving at higher revs using the paddles.The car otherwise drives and shifts normally as it has since purchased 30 months ago.

2. When I stop the car and switch the engine off there is a single Phutt, sounds like some kind of blow-bask, from the engine as the engine stops... This only happens after a motorway run or driving up a hill at higher revs. It seems like there is pressure building up somewhere and releasing when the engine stops in a single Phutt. Have never experienced this on any of my Range Rovers... No overheating, no DPF issues, no ticking, or any other noises or mechanical issues. IID shows engine temperature of up to 97 celsius. There are no relevant error codes showing on the IID.

Can anyone advise where I start looking to resolve these two issues.

Any advise will be greatly appreciated.

John 2012 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Current
2015 E220 with AMG Sport Pack - Currently driven by my son
2010 3.6 TDV8 Vogue - Written off by my son

Last edited by 4434Morrison on 3rd Sep 2022 1:22pm. Edited 1 time in total

Number 1 sounds fairly normal to me. The fan can 'howl' sometimes on the 4.4 TDV8. It's warm at the moment and V8s get very hot very quickly.

Just check things like the bonnet alignment, noise insulators between the doors and bonnet, the seal on the windscreen etc - obvious things that might potentially cause a howl under acceleration. 2015 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 SDV8

Last edited by garyRR on 2nd Sep 2022 3:54pm. Edited 1 time in total

The 'phutt' noise is fairly standard too I think. It happens on mine (as does the noisy fan as per GaryRR) but not an issue so far (am on 120,000 miles)

Many thanks for the responses garRR and Dolphinboy.

Will just turn the radio volume up... Problem solved. 2012 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Current
2015 E220 with AMG Sport Pack - Currently driven by my son
2010 3.6 TDV8 Vogue - Written off by my son

I'd maybe get it checked out by a specialist for peace of mind  2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Mine phuts too when shut off. I think it is normal with all the high pressure gubbins going on in the engine bay. Although I could be wrong and sitting on a time bomb, ahhhhhhhhh! Tom

Current Drive
2011 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography - Santorini Black - Ivory Leather

Previous Drives
2004 Model Vogue Td6 (Touchscreen) - Java Black - Parchment Leather
1994 RR Classic 3.9 V8 Soft dash - Niagara Grey - Grey Leather
1972 Series III SWB Safari - Green (Hand Painted) - Black Plastic

Yep, happily howling along here too. Just in slower traffic it would seem. Once I’m out on the open road though, there’s obviously enough fresh air getting through… only noise then is coming from the ancient tyres!

Mine has a hooting/moaning sound just above 1krpm as has been experienced by others but I wouldn't call it a 'howl' (maybe and Owl ). Not heard a phutt but in common with many diesels there is a throttle plate which closes to shut off then engine quickly on shut down (amongst other things) which will create a partial vacuum in the intake so it may cause a noise if you have a leaky seal somewhere? Are these noises are new is the big question you should be asking 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Hi fmgl322, that's exactly the same with mine. When cold runs quietly until it reaches operating temperature. Then in traffic and on hills the howling starts. I have watched the engine temperature on live data on the IID and that fluctuates between 97 and 101 Celsius. Not sure is that is hotter than the norm.

Once i get out of town and 40 mph and above then all is super quiet as normal. 2012 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Current
2015 E220 with AMG Sport Pack - Currently driven by my son
2010 3.6 TDV8 Vogue - Written off by my son

JayGee, thanks for the comment on the Phutt.... I have noticed that there is no Phutt if I let the engine idle for a while before switching the engine off...

I had the engine cover ff yesterday and there is a small amount of oily soot around the junction of the main air intake. Will strip that down today and have a look at the area.

All hoses on the plenum and elsewhere are fine. I have cleaned out the MAP sensor on the plenum.

The issues only started a few weeks ago. The only change to my use of the car is fuelling. I have over the past 30 months only ever filled up with premium diesel, until a bout a month ago when I started using supermarket fuel.... I realise there are numerous threads on here stating that supermarket fuel has no detrimental impact on the car, but am starting to wonder now that these issues have started arising.

The car has full service history up to 95k with MD's and my local independent since then. and I religiously change the oil and filter at around 6k intervals.

There is one factor that springs to mind. I need to check the air filters.... I went to a beach in Europe a couple of times in late July, where the sand is like ultra fine dust. You have to drive about one mile through a forest along deep sandy tracks to get to the beach and every nook on the car was thickly caked in this dust on each trip.

Its just dawned on me that the primary air filter will have been caked in that very fine sand. Must have a look today.

Thank you all for your comments, very much appreciated...

John 2012 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Current
2015 E220 with AMG Sport Pack - Currently driven by my son
2010 3.6 TDV8 Vogue - Written off by my son

Mine howls from cold if I pull away slowly in the village or town area, I was concerned at first but not now.
Have to say though, I normally let her idle for 30 secs before I shut her down. 2012 Orkney Grey Westminster 4.4TDV8 with Ivory interior.........nice!
Alfa Romeo Giulietta
Just one Montesa now, 349 White Wonder
Austin A40 Farina MK2
1975 Morris Marina 1.8TC

I spent the morning dismantling the hose that connects to the throttle body as I noticed yesterday that the side was covered in oily residue at the seem indicating that there was a leak there.



When I removed the hose I found that the underside was thickly caked with the oily residue. The throttle body inside was clean with no residue at all. Whilst dismantling the hose I found that the connection to the throttle body was actually quite loose. The metal clip seemed not to be seated correctly on the underside. I cleaned everything up with brake cleaner and ensured that the everything was properly seated.

After re-assembly I took the car for a run through the village about two miles down to the M20 motorway with no howling what so ever. Once on the motorway I drove at a steady 70 mph for about 5 miles, left the motorway and returned down the A20 - no howling as was experienced yesterday. Even driving up the steep hill to our village there was no howling.

So far today I have not had the phutt when the engine is stopped. Touch wood the howling and phutt issues are resolved.

I also checked the primary air filter, which was clean.

There is a green o ring inside that pipe, which has been totally flattened as if shaped to the connection.

My question is: Should that o ring be round or shaped? Can anyone advise please. If it should be round I will have to see if I can find a replacement o ring online or from Land Rover.

Any further comment / assistance greatly appreciated.

John 2012 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Current
2015 E220 with AMG Sport Pack - Currently driven by my son
2010 3.6 TDV8 Vogue - Written off by my son

Definitely worth a check on the connections on mine then. Tom

Current Drive
2011 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography - Santorini Black - Ivory Leather

Previous Drives
2004 Model Vogue Td6 (Touchscreen) - Java Black - Parchment Leather
1994 RR Classic 3.9 V8 Soft dash - Niagara Grey - Grey Leather
1972 Series III SWB Safari - Green (Hand Painted) - Black Plastic

4434Morrison wrote:

I spent the morning dismantling the hose that connects to the throttle body as I noticed yesterday that the side was covered in oily residue at the seem indicating that there was a leak there.



When I removed the hose I found that the underside was thickly caked with the oily residue. The throttle body inside was clean with no residue at all. Whilst dismantling the hose I found that the connection to the throttle body was actually quite loose. The metal clip seemed not to be seated correctly on the underside. I cleaned everything up with brake cleaner and ensured that the everything was properly seated.

After re-assembly I took the car for a run through the village about two miles down to the M20 motorway with no howling what so ever. Once on the motorway I drove at a steady 70 mph for about 5 miles, left the motorway and returned down the A20 - no howling as was experienced yesterday. Even driving up the steep hill to our village there was no howling.

So far today I have not had the phutt when the engine is stopped. Touch wood the howling and phutt issues are resolved.

I also checked the primary air filter, which was clean.

There is a green o ring inside that pipe, which has been totally flattened as if shaped to the connection.

My question is: Should that o ring be round or shaped? Can anyone advise please. If it should be round I will have to see if I can find a replacement o ring online or from Land Rover.

Any further comment / assistance greatly appreciated.

John

This is a WELL KNOWN issue although I don't think it's the cause of any howling but is the cause of a potential problem later down the line with a DPF error.

In my opinion, the pipe is poorly designed - both because the metal retaining clip gives holes for charged air to escape from and also because the seal isn't near substantial enough.

The eventual failure is the double lipped green seal you refer to leaking air and eventually leads to a clogged or full DPF. The seal collapses causing the leak. See picture with highlighted areas:

Click image to enlarge

I'm sorry to say that if your seal is partially collapsed, it can't be fixed and the seal also can't be bought separately anywhere (many members have tried).

There's 2 solutions to it. 1 is to replace the part. It's not a big expenditure really (£170) and as you've found out, only takes 5 minutes to fit. The part number is LR022663.

The second solution costs about 50p and is good for diagnosis/interim fix/periodic replacement. You need some gas specification PTFE tape wrapped around the throttle body in the location of the collapsed seal, to create a new seal (see picture below).

I have done this on mine and now driven 3,000 miles without any further leaks.

If you didn't clean the MAP sensor, also worth undoing the T20 screw and giving that a good clean up with electrical contact cleaner. Hope this helps. 2015 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 SDV8

Many thanks GaryRR,

Will sort out a roll of gas PTF and apply as advised.

I already clean the MAP sensor on the plenum every 6000 mile when I change the oil. Until I can get hold of a new part from LR.

John 2012 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Current
2015 E220 with AMG Sport Pack - Currently driven by my son
2010 3.6 TDV8 Vogue - Written off by my son