I am seriously considering a FFRR, probably an '03 / '04 V8 Vogue with up to 80,000 miles. I have spoken to a couple of Landrover mechanics who have told me to budget for a new / reconditioned gearbox at around the 90k mark. Is this generally the rule? Also, what sort of major work would I be expecting to encounter with a vehicle of this age and mileage? Many thanks.

I suggest that you don't take your car to those "Mechanics" to suggest that the gearboxes fail at 90K is a load of tosh.

The gearbox ideally needs its oil changing at 60K, but even at 100K the oil should still be doing its job. Anything over 130K really is pushing your luck though on the same oil. They are BMW/ZF boxes that are "sealed for life" however "Life" means the life of the warranty, not the life of the box!

As far as "everything else" goes, there is a lot to go wrong, but a lot of reward to owning a RR.

Have a couple of hundred to one side for a MK4 DVD navigation upgrade as it really improves the usability of the GPS function. Other than that, a good independent LR garage is your best asset, unfortunately when you drive into a garage with a RR you can see the $$ signs flash up in peoples eyes so always do you research when garages quote for work to be done.

Oh and look at LPG as an option if you do over 10K pa. 

I changed my gearbox oil at 82k miles, and the diffs and engine. The gearbox then completely expired at 99,950 miles...

Hi, I own a 02/03 TD6 Vogue and had my gearbox rebuilt in February this year with a shade over 94K on the clock. The guys at JT automatics did a great job and specialise in rebuilding failed auto transmissions and have done 100's of L322 RR, they also said .....“its defiantly a when not an if”..... to a trans fail on this vehicle.

They have a set price with a 2 year warranty and no I’m not on commission just really pleased with the great service............ so budgeting this into your purchase is a wise move.

It’s normally the torque converter that goes sending debris into the transmission destroying the valves that eventually will cause the failure. JT automatics said i was the first person they knew with a FFRR who actually drove to get their gearbox rebuilt as they normally turn up on a flat bet..........he did say I would have been lucky to get another 100 miles before it failed so check out other treads on here for signs and symptoms that may give a clue to a transmission problem as I did which is why I took it in.

In terms of other major issues this like with any car it could be almost anything so as always try to go for a one owner, full service history with lots of bills and receipts to show its been well looked after, also check every electrical switch and gadget, which will take some time due to the spec of the Vogue, but well worth it, I didn’t and found a few items not working later on which I have now fixed but should have spotted at the time of purchase to negotiate the price down. Don’t be put off with things that don’t work just use it to negotiate the price, private or dealer. Parts are easily sourced either used or new and can often be tackled by the home mechanic with a bit of research and sites such like this.

Check the air con as the condenser can leak, and low air con pressure no cold air, check the front and rear PDC as these can deteriorate over time giving false or continues beeps and the only solution is to replace failed sensors but this could also be the PDC ECU which has a habit of failing to the front sensors leaving the rear working fine, as mine did. I replaced all mine with and sourced a used PDC ECU and now the PDC works perfect. CD changer can jam, mine has but it can be un jammed with a bit of persuasion. The folding mirrors may not stay folded due to the actuator arm dislodging from the micro switch inside which again all repairable as I did with mine last weekend. This list could go on and on but it’s such a lot of car for relatively small amount of money these days if you go for an 02-05 FFRR, happy hunting..............

Thanks for the detailed replies! Great forum! If you don't mind, I have a few more questions:
How much should a change of gearbox oil cost?
What are the 'warning signs' to imminent gearbox failure? (someone is bound to say 'cogs bouncing down the road in the rear-view mirror!)
I am seriously considering an LPG conversion, there are many systems, are there any that should be avoided?

I can only advise you on what I paid for comparison:

Gearbox oil MUST be the correct fluid (see our WiKi) - £175 ish

LPG fully sequential with Short Term & Long Term trim - £1100 ProfessAutogas



Remember that the TD6 has a complete different gearbox to the 4.4, it's made by GM rather than ZF. The thing that kills gearboxes is dirty/degraded oil. The killer of the oil is temperature. If the box is overheated the fluid must be changed immediately as it looses it's lubricative properties.

The gear changes should be smooth, and mainly no warnings on the dash, apart from that, that's about it! You should browse the Technical section to get a view on what fails. You could also download a copy of the workshop manual, it will help for reference - again, see the WiKi.

Dan 

Ok, personal view...........don’t bother with a gearbox oil change unless you are sure its been changed at regular intervals from new.........by the time you get a RR with 70-80K on the clock that has not had a change of oil doing it now won’t stop the inevitable and can be expensive, filter kit £50-£60, plus oil which can be up to £29 a litre depending on where you go + labour cost if you don’t do it yourself, and the ZF box needs 9.9 litres from dry and 6 litres for a refill, most independent garages can’t get all the old oil out so you end up with the new oil being quickly contaminated, again little point in my view.........

Signs and symptoms can be varied, the first is mileage, I’ve heard of transmission failure at 50K and over 150K, so it’s not a science, I had sluggish engagement into drive from neutral, sporadic revving under load like up a hill as it hunted for a gear and rough change from 1st to 2nd at low speed not under load, it sometimes thuds into 2nd from 1st and general hunting for gears at odd times

802965118 wrote:

don’t bother with a gearbox oil change

Do you use the same theory for your engine oil?

The gearbox is a mechanical device, and as such needs servicing. The manufacturer's service schedule for these boxes is 60,000 miles, it's as simple as that really! 

dan my range rover has done 72,000 would you say changing the gearbox oil / filter is worth while ...it all drives well and touch wood i dont seem to be having any of the issues others are having....its just i was all up for changing it but the tech from LR said that it might create problems changing it.....i cant see how it could so your advise would be great ...thanks in advance "RANGEISM WILL NOT BE TOLERATED"
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Pert
I got my FF with 70+k on the clock with no gearbox problems. Changed the filter and oil (easy job) and have 90k and no problems. As Dan says would you ignore your engine oil in the same way? I would rather spend the £150 on a filter and oil change and have peice of mind that I had done everything I could to look after the box rather than thinking " it, it's only going to break anyway". But everyone has different ideas. The OP should visit www.rangerovers.net/forum and look up RRPhil. He's a ZF gearbox geek and he will tell you exactly how good the ZF is and if treated right just how long it will last. The GM box in the 3.0D is totally different beast and they DO suffer alot more then the ZF in the 4.4.

Rob2529 wrote:

The GM box in the 3.0D is totally different beast and they DO suffer alot more then the ZF in the 4.4.

+1

The GM box has a lower service interval than the ZF, so when people say their TD6 box has failed at 90K, it's really no surprise if it's not been serviced. Add into the mix that the diesels are often used for towing etc and have a generally harder life with a lot more gear changes due to the low rev power it's no wonder they fail.

Is it because they are built badly? Or is it because the manufacturer says the oil must be changed at 50K yet they are driven to 100K on dirty/ineffective oil.

BMW/Land Rover do not care if you gearbox fails after 100K because you will be out of warranty by then. If you need to bring your car back for a new box then all the better for them. 

pretlove wrote:

dan my range rover has done 72,000 would you say changing the gearbox oil / filter is worth while

Yes - if you'd like it to continue to work well. 

I do agree that the GM seems prone to wear quicker , having had one and chatted with the specialist who had 3 other FFRR's in that same week! He said the castings for the GM were from a material that wasn't quite up to the job at the time which has apparently been acknowledged buy the gearbox producer but too late for recalls / warrantee work. The internals of an autobox oscillate at a fast rate, add poor materials for castings and invetitable fragments from wear in the box floating around and the fluid will effectively become a grinding paste effectively over tiime.

As for Landrover not caring.. I see where you are coming from Dan.. but I'd like to add when I got mine fixed it didn't go to landrover a) because of their rip off prices and b) because of a) anyway.. the reason why Landrover should care is that the faithfull will have their heads turned and go elsewhere out of frustration.. I've had seven Landrovers ovewr the years.. was awesomely impressed with their capability but have just gone to a none Landrover 4x4 for the first time as I'm running out of money at to quicker rate to stick through a Range Rover money shredder. 2010 Disco XS TDV6, 2009 Freelander 2 GS

Previous Landrover products -1990 110 TDI CSW, 2003 TD6 Vogue - RRC TD Vogue, RRC v8 Fleetline, Disco ES V8 LPG, 101 Ambulance "Morph", 1964 SIIa Auto Powered by Jag 4.2 Lump - "Percy".

i'm still undecided.

reading the forums as many gearboxes have failed with an oil change as not, yes oil degrades but you cannot do a 100% change so disturb the crap and leave some behind. Thats about as technical as i can get with regards to auto boxes...

Reckon there is enough user's here for a poll? ie;

Changed oil at 80k, still running well at 100k
Not changed oil, running well at 100k
Changed oil at 70k gearbox went at 100k etc.. 2004 black Vogue TD6

letsavit2 wrote:

as many gearboxes have failed with an oil change as not, yes oil degrades but you cannot do a 100% change so disturb the crap and leave some behind. Thats about

However, how many gearboxes that have failed HAVE had an oil change at the manufacturer specified time? I would bet None. Therefore although it is likely there were other factors that lead to their demise it is impossible to say that without a decent control that changing the oil would not have prevented failure which is the way this conversation seems to be going.