Chaps

I got my car serviced in June @48400 miles, the other day at @5400 miles the dashboard has flashed up that it wants another service.

My first guess is that the service interval was not reset properly but could it possibly be oil dilution?

I do make sure I give it a good long drive every so often so give the dpf a chance to do its thing.
Anyway it’s going to go in to the dealership but I thought I would ask if anyone else has experienced this? It’s a 4.4sdv8

Cheers

Jon

If the car was serviced at a LR dealer, I would rule out wrong reset procedure, they must do dozens each day. But you can always contact them and get them to test for oil dilution or check ODB2 for the number of missed regenerations, which would be a good pointer to oil dilution.
Presume you dont have a OBD2 reader? Of course there could be other reasons for this, so check with your dealer first. If they find there is nothing wrong and it is oil dilution--read on.

I experienced same issues, I do a lot of short runs (5 to 20 miles) and was frustrated that I could never tell when it was regenerating.
See post's below on a way to continuously monitor your Trigger point (soot level) and when the car is actually Regenerating.
It allows you to identify a Regen and you can then extend your journey. Regen events in my car, usually are all over under 10mins and 6 to 8 miles from start. So for me its worth that extra few mins drive to prevent a failed event.
A cheap reader, car scanner app and in my case an old iPhone is all that you need.

I have noticed that Regen's occur with my car on average, between every 100 to 150 miles which was an eye opener to me, I didn't think they were so frequent. So if you stop the car during one event, that's when the unburnt fuel enters the sump and you register another "failed regen event"

I use it every journey now, and get a cheesy grin on my face every time I beat the

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic60839.html

https://www.rrsport.co.uk/forum/topic58716.html 2018 SE SDV8 4.4 Byron Blue

Great reply and thanks for that.

Its going in because it’s got some bits to attend to at the dealership anyway, it will be interesting to see what they say.

I’m aware of the possibility of oil dilution… I didn’t think it possible after 2000 miles though


Cheers

Jon

Kot wrote:

So if you stop the car during one event, that's when the unburnt fuel enters the sump and you register another "failed regen event"

If you have a successful uninterrupted Active Regen all the fuel used to increase the DPF temperatures is used up in that process, burnt and blown out of the exhaust system etc.
If its interrupted and especially on a short run and Engine is not at running temperature, there will be excess unburnt fuel left in the exhaust system which can condense on cooling and eventually wash back to the sump.
Next start, the system is looking to Regen again, another short run and its interrupted again etc etc

(Extract WM)--"Depending on the DPF temperature, the DPF software requests the Engine Control Module (ECM) to perform either
one or two post-injections of fuel:
The first post-injection of fuel is associated with retarded combustion to increase the temperature of the exhaust
gas and therefore allow the oxidation catalyst to reach it's operational temperature.
The second post-injection of fuel is injected late in the power stroke cycle. The fuel is not intended to combust in
the cylinder, and hence unburnt fuel passes into the exhaust where it creates an exothermic event within the
catalytic converter, further increasing the temperature of the DPF."


Failed DPF regens just add to the problem and increase the rate at which your oil slowly gets contaminated.

Oil dilution has always been an enemy to Diesel Engines and that was without DPF's!
Some light reading -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankcase_dilution

It becomes more interesting the bigger and slower the Engine ( Large Ships for example) and use of Heavey Fuel oil -- I can hear Merchy getting his keyboard ready we could swop many stories I guess on Ships Engines.

Do a Google, there is a lot out there and probably some utube vids.

Another Extract from the WM (worth a read) 309-00D EXHAUST SYSTEM - TDV8 4.4L DIESEL
"Engine Oil Dilution
Engine oil dilution can occur due to small amounts of fuel entering the engine crankcase during the post-injection
phases. This has made it necessary to introduce a calculation based on driving style to reduce oil service intervals if
necessary. The driver is alerted to the oil service by a message in the IC.
The DPF software monitors the driving style and the frequency of the active regeneration and duration. Using this
information a calculation can be made on the engine oil dilution. When the DPF software calculates the engine oil
dilution has reached a predetermined threshold (fuel being 7% of engine oil volume) a service message is displayed in
the IC.
Depending on driving style, some vehicles may require an oil service before the designated interval. If a service
message is displayed, the vehicle will be required have a full service and the service interval counter will be reset."

So I say to all you guys & gals, why wait till you get an Amber or Red?, for very little money you can watch the process yourself
Yes I know, Marine Enginers are quite about these things  2018 SE SDV8 4.4 Byron Blue

Thanks for the reply Kot, I'm not sure I can see how unburned fuel in the exhaust can make back to the sump?

My guess is that all of the time a regen is active, additional fuel is injected to feed the fire in the DPF, some of this makes it past the pistons into the sump. If the regen fails then the process is repeated again feeding past the pistons into the sump. The continual DPF events causes the dilution. When the DPF regen is successful the engine continues as normal with it's diluted oil.

What seems odd to me, is why dont manufacturers inject fuel directly into the exhaust instead of going via the combustion chamber? By doing this all oil dilution and it's adverse effects would be avoided. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Exhaust is the moment the gasses start leaving the cylinder during the exhaust stroke, maybe you misunderstood my post? or not understood my reply?
So you have answered your own question by your reply on line 2

"My guess is that all of the time a regen is active, additional fuel is injected to feed the fire in the DPF, some of this makes it past the pistons into the sump"

As the fuel for Active Regen is injected into the cylinder on the exhaust stroke (not before top of compression stroke) part of this fuel condenses and washes down the cylinder walls and scrapped down through the rings.

See attached video there is mention of some mfg starting to use direct injection at DPF near the end of video

 2018 SE SDV8 4.4 Byron Blue

This issue is getting interesting for me now. After I had the car serviced on the 1st of this month (free of charge) I’ve been monitoring the mileage and length of time (miles) until the next service is due, the results have been surprising…

After driving a total 450mls by service counter has dropped by about 2500 miles, the majority of my miles are highway and not around town, so it’s not a car that’s only being used for shopping and the school run (although it does do that)

This run rate means that my actual mileage is circa 18% if what it should be doing, something is wrong here, if the car keeps this up it will require a service in around 7 weeks.

It’s booked into the dealership on the 16th (had another issue to resolve) but has anyone experienced this on their car before?
Or any idea as to what’s happening?
It’s a 2017 4.4

At the last service just conducted they said there was oil dilution, I’m wondering if the vehicle is stuck attempting continuous regens?

Cheers

Jon

I have MY18 4.4
Since I have started using the sky scanner app, I have caught every regen that I would otherwise have missed, and drove the extra few miles to complete it.

I am getting an active regen approx every 125miles which came as a surprise to me (so low) and at soot level trigger around 53%.
I do get passive regen, but only at speeds 61-62mph and higher, when dpf exhaust sensors are 250+C. I then do see soot % gradually start to lower slowly, maybe 1% reduction per 5 mins if that.

So I have done my best to reduce oil dilution, however its all down to my driving style lol
Without a Motorway, to achieve passive Regen exhaust temps, LR create a car that you need to break the 60mph speed limit to achieve the 250 Celsius required for Passive Regeneration.
I do notice that driving in the 40-49mph zone that soot % increases quicker.

I did see my service range get better after having more completed Regens, as you would expect.
BUT-- it didn't solve the big picture, I still have the same issue as you, "my next service Range" has dropped another 379 miles after travelling only 92 miles!
Last Oil & Filter change was 2400 miles ago 3 months ago- Remote tells me I have 3700 miles to go for the next service.
I did see the oil level indicator after the last dealer service, was on the high side (but not in alarm), wondering if that started the algorithm off on a bad start from the beginning?

Oil and vacuum pump already bought lol I had planned for twice yearly Oil changes, looks like it will be every 4 months.
Interested to know what your dealer says. 2018 SE SDV8 4.4 Byron Blue

scotsjon
what did the dealer say regarding this issue with your FF?

Today, my service countdown was at 1550 miles to go, however for every 100 miles journey the counter dropped 500 miles so only had about 300 miles to run at that rate.
So thats an oil change after 3000 miles thats 18.75% of JLR claim of 16000 miles between services.
The previous service in August was also done early after 3000 miles done back in March 21.

So today vacuumed out the oil for the first time (draper ), I got 10.75 litres out !!!! I had to empty the Draper to finish off the recovery! it would have been more if I had drained the sump.
Note capacity is only 9.5 litres.
Checking the oil level before change (hot) and it was registering OK and on the first upper red dot.
So either the dealer put in too much oil at the last service in August 21 or its the result of oil dilution.
(Wonder if they also vacuum it out and add 9.5L?)

Anyway from Baltic Blue's oil vacuum thread I only put in 8.25 litres (after a vacuum there is at least 1 litre left in the engine).
Checked level all within range (about 2 white dots from upper level) so off for a drive and Engine up to operating temperature.
Stopped and after 12 mins checked level, and it was at the last white dot, so happy with that.

Now I have a datum for the next oil change, interesting to see how much I vacuum out next time, any more than 8.25L and its diesel, and I will also be able to see from the gauge if its over filled.

As previously stated I was always going to do oil changes every 6 months but it is looking like ever 4 to 5 months now, but you dont have a FF and scrimp on the essentials. I actually enjoyed the Draper experience what a breeze not a drop spilled  2018 SE SDV8 4.4 Byron Blue

That’s very interesting, I’m looking at a very similar figure re the miles achieved between oil changes.
Funnily enough after a recent motorway run my service actually increased, which makes me think that it really needs regular runs in excess of 55-60mph (something I can’t achieve in my area, I’m 100miles from my nearest motorway).

My dealer was unhelpful, despite asking them to look into how many failed regens had occurred they didn’t and simply said it’s oil dilution and the oil change is on the house. A good friend works for a dealership (not local to me) and I’m going to take it to him where a level 4 tech will hopefully tell me what’s going on and if there is anything I can do to mitigate it. Im hoping to be there when he interrogates the system, the results of which I will share here

J

I got the car scanner app, plugged in a scanner and went for spin.
I started with 57% soot trigger which as soon as I hit 50mph jumped up to 100% which of course started an active regen, which as you can see from the picture below was interrupted by getting stuck in road works, once I got going again it took about 10 mins for the soot% to drop to 7 which then rose gradually to 10% by the time I got home.

This drive which was about 50 miles cost me 800 of my distance to service, although I do wonder how much of that was due to the regen being interrupted. I will keep an eye on it over the next little while and see if I can catch each regen.
Just as you have previously described I noted that the passive regen comes on only for short periods, I’m going to York soon and will be watching its performance on the motorway.

J

scotsjon good to see you have it working.

I have now noticed after my last oil change in Dec21, that every completed Active Regen also causes oil dilution, its not just failed Regens as most people are presuming.

I believe this because, I have had Zero failed Active Regens since Dec21 by religiously monitoring every journey with the app in real time, and extending my journey time to complete any ongoing Active Regens

Dec21 oil service was reset to 16k

Miles travelled since Oil change is 817 and Incontrol Remote states I have 10743 miles to the next service thats a decline by 5250 miles in that time period 2018 SE SDV8 4.4 Byron Blue

I just wrote to scotsjon on here as I am joining the oil change frustration group

What I wrote:

Hi There,

I am suffering like you did with a stupidly short oil service. I have had to recently clean my DPF using injected foam, so I know it is likely to be involved in the issues.

Anyhow I wondered if you still have the range rover and if the issues continue?

I plan to take the hit and pay for oil analysis this first time - to see if the ECU is right in its view of the oil water content!

James