Evening all

I've done plenty of research on this and searched through quite a few useful topics on this forum, but I thought the easiest way to diagnose would be for someone who has a FFRR with the 4.4 M62 to listen to mine and see if it matches theirs

So if you wouldn't mind gentleman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDyD1GF2CtM

Vanos, not really a problem from the sound of it, as long as you can live with it.

Pretty common in the m62, may carry on as is, may get worse, but I wouldn't worry about it. Range Rover-less at the moment - Pining!

Worn vanos was the conclusion I'd come to from my snooping around the net

I'd certainly rather live with it than spend a lot of time and money sorting it out, hopefully a good service will quieten it down a bit

It also sounds like the oil filter is buzzing, wondering if the filter is clogged or whether the pump is requiring tightening

Had to have a vanos replaced on a BMW 330i. Cost me a £1000.

Apparently a common fail on that and the m3. It seriously affected performance on mine, I take it that's not the case with yours? My Previous RR's!
2018 P400e Autobiography
2008 TDV8 Vogue
2006 TD6 Vogue
2007 TDV8 Vogue
2007 RRS (I know, it doesn't count!)
2005 4.4 Vogue on LPG
2005 TD6 Vogue
2003 4.4 Vogue
2001 4.6 HSE
2000 2.5 DHSE
1999 4.6 HSE
1997 4.6 HSE on LPG
1995 2.5 DSE
1989 3.9 EFI classic
1988 3.5 EFI classic

It doesn't seem to have affected performance, but under hard acceleration it is audible outside of the car

I'm hoping an oil change will help but unsure, vanos issues isn't something i listened for as it's only apparent next to the block or outside the vehicle

Sometimes remove the solenoids and renew all the O rings can help VANOS units massively. Used to have:
2005 FFRR 4.4 Vogue - BRC LPG Conversion & Remapped

Now have:
2008 SSRR 3.6 TDV8 - HSE and plenty of toys

I am officially 'billy no mates' as have been studying VANOS units over the last few weeks for race performance issues!!

Noisy VANOS is a very well known issue in all BMW (& related) engines.

I have got an E36 M3 Evolution with a Double VANOS which sounds like marbles going round in a baked bean tin when warm but the acid test is function. We put it on a dyno a few weeks ago and could see a double VANOS hit 2,500rpm and 5,500rpm lift points (big upward kicks in the power curve). It is working just fine........ but is a 'little' noisy when warm.

Plenty of chaps around that diagnose such things

http://www.mrvanos.com/ seems to know what he is talking about albeit BMW orientated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VANOS

One of the big issues in keeping them quiet is the correct oil grade. Fully synthetic 10W40 is what is recommended by BMW for the M3's at least. Any thinner exaggerates the noise.

Beware though of messing the electrical solenoids up............. they are around 400 greenbacks each

And for those who want to be totally bored whitless................. read on...........

BMW VANOS Engine Controls.

Introduction:

VANOS is a combined hydraulic and mechanical camshaft control device managed by the car’s DME engine management system.

The VANOS system is based on an adjustment mechanism that can modify the position of the intake camshaft versus the crankshaft. Double-VANOS adds an adjustment of the intake and outlet camshafts.

VANOS operates on the intake camshaft in accordance with engine speed and accelerator pedal position. At the lower end of the engine-speed scale, the intake valves are opened later, which improves idling quality and smoothness. At moderate engine speeds, the intake valves open much earlier, which boosts torque and permits exhaust gas re-circulation inside the combustion chambers, reducing fuel consumption and exhaust emissions. Finally, at high engine speeds, intake valve opening is once again delayed, so that full power can be developed.

VANOS significantly enhances emission management, increases output and torque, and offers better idling quality and fuel economy. The latest version of VANOS is double-VANOS, used in the new M3. VANOS was first introduced in 1992 on the BMW M50 engine used in the 5 Series.

Here’s how it works:

In overhead cam engines, the cams are connected to the crankshaft by either a belt or chain and gears. In BMW VANOS motors there is a chain and some sprockets.

The crankshaft drives a sprocket on the exhaust cam, and the exhaust cam sprocket is bolted to the exhaust cam. A second set of teeth moves a second chain that goes across to the intake cam. The big sprocket on the intake cam is not bolted to the cam, for it has a big hole in the middle. Inside the hole is a helical set of teeth. On the end of the cam is a gear that is also helical on the outside, but it’s too small to connect to the teeth on the inside of the big sprocket. There is a little cup of metal with helical teeth to match the cam on the inside and to match the sprocket on the outside. The V (Variable) in VANOS is due to the helical nature of the teeth. The cup gear is moved by a hydraulic mechanism that works on oil pressure controlled by the DME.

At idle, the cam timing is retarded. Just off idle, the DME energizes a solenoid which allows oil pressure to move that cup gear to advance the cam 12.5 degrees at midrange, and then at about 5000 rpm, it allows it to come back to the original position. The greater advance causes better cylinder fill at mid rpms for better torque. The noise some people hear is the result of tolerances that make the sprocket wiggle a bit as the cup gear is moved in or out.

Double VANOS

Double-VANOS (double-variable camshaft control) significantly improves torque since valve timing on both the intake and outlet camshafts are adjusted to the power required from the engine as a function of gas pedal position and engine speed.

On most BMW engines that use a single VANOS, the timing of the intake cam is only changed at two distinct rpm points, while on the double-VANOS system, the timing of the intake and exhaust cams are continuously variable throughout the majority of the rpm range.

With double-VANOS, the opening period of the intake valves are extended by 12 degrees with an increase in valve lift by 0.9 mm.

Double-VANOS requires very high oil pressure in order to adjust the camshafts very quickly and accurately, ensuring better torque at low engine speeds and better power at high speeds. With the amount of un-burnt residual gases being reduced, engine idle is improved. Special engine management control maps for the warm-up phase help the catalytic converter reach operating temperature sooner.

Double-VANOS improves low rpm power, flattens the torque curve, and widens the power band for a given set of camshafts. The double-VANOS engine has a 450 rpm lower torque peak and a 200 rpm higher horsepower peak than single-VANOS, and the torque curve is improved between 1500 – 3800 rpm. At the same time, the torque does not fall off as fast past the horsepower peak.

The advantage of double-VANOS is that the system controls the flow of hot exhaust gases into the intake manifold individually for all operating conditions. This is referred to as “internal” exhaust gas re-circulation, allowing very fine dosage of the amount of exhaust gas recycled.

While the engine is warming up, VANOS improves the fuel/air mixture and helps to quickly warm up the catalytic converter to its normal operating temperature. When the engine is idling, the system keeps idle speeds smooth and consistent thanks to the reduction of exhaust gas re-circulation to a minimum. Under part load, exhaust gas re-circulation is increased to a much higher level, allowing the engine to run on a wider opening angle of the throttle butterfly in the interest of greater fuel economy. Under full load, the system switches back to a low re-circulation volume providing the cylinders with as much oxygen as possible.

Simples……………. Currently running FFRR MY10 TDV8 3.6L and a Disco 3 XS Commercial (tank like but very effective as a Company van). Plus one mint condition Track Day Car in the form of an E36 M3 3.2L Evolution circa June 1996 with lots of go faster bits and only 52k miles on the clock! Oh, plus a few bits to make it slow down really quickly as well! Luvverly.

Thanks for all your replies

I've spoken to my mechanic (who's dad has a 7 series with the M62) and he thinks an oil change back to the correct grade (god knows what's in it) should quieten the noise, he's not reckoning on vanos just yet but on the timing chains not being correctly lubricated or something due to knackered oil

I'll keep this thread updated either way in the hope it might help some other owners!

Interesting thread for me as my car suffers from the same problem but mainly on start up, it sounds awful. Initially I thought it was the timing chain tensioner and so had tensioner, timing chain,gears all replaced at the same time as my head gasket which needed to be done (car has done 110K) I was gutted when I heard the same noise again a couple of days after getting the car back

I then found some info regarding the VANUS unit issues and found a bit of info regarding the none return valves which are fitted behind the solenoids, which stops the oil draining out of the vanus uits which can cause them to make a bad noise on start up. These have been replaced and still I have the noise.

I think the reality is that the Vanus units are knackered but I keep on hearing that this noise is not a problem but this just doesn't feel right as the noise sounds mechanical and I feel if metal is hitting metal then damage is happening. I also cannot realistically sell it sounding like it does on start up as I would have them knocking on my door the next morning.

Does anyone else have any suggestions ?

Also some one mentioned replacing O rings on the Vanus units, could you expand on this, ta.........Adam

I would suggest searching on Youtube for M62 engine noise and vanos, there are many videos posted, see what sounds closest to yours and try to find a diagnosis, video yours, and post it yourself, and get some opinions.

Other things it could be are broken chain guides on the camchain, or if it's a knocking noise, possibly worn camshaft (that's what mine was).

You may find some tips on here:

http://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/

Good luck anyway. Range Rover-less at the moment - Pining!