Problem with keeping it around the existing entry price is that the car then needs to also appeal at £150k+ - and I’m not sure the fussy knurled bits etc of the SVA made up that difference this time around.

There will be expensive £150k plus tricked out versions similar to the SV ones today, but they still need to compete with X7, Q7, GLS for the volume end of the market segment so they won’t be able to price too far away from these.

Therein lies the dilemma for LR, compete in the ‘volume’ sector of the luxury 4x4 market or go up against the likes of Bentley, Rolls Royce, Lamborghini. Notable that most (all?) of the other players have picked their market and stick to it opposed try and capture all aspects.

The RR sits between two groups, its not quite at the build quality level of the Bentayga and Cullinan and the X7, Q7 and GLS are all 7 seaters, the X7 doesn’t match the towing capacity and the Q7 and GLS doesn’t feel that special when compared to the RR, the discounts from Audi/BMW and MB are huge, JLR don’t have to discount. I briefly looked at an X7 a couple of weeks ago and without trying was offered £25k discount off a factory order of my spec.

LR's branding confusion and overlap between LR and RR has been a mess for years and this is much of the problem. Discovery in its current form and pricing is really the product which should be up against Q7, GLS, X7 but it can't because it's branded LR not RR. If Discovery was a RR this would allow the FFRR to move properly into the Bentley area to compete around £200K. Defender should have been priced lower to make it what the Discovery used to be (the more utilitarian, practical and cheaper offering) where the LR branding is appropriate. It's not surprising they can't sell Discos now. Why buy one? You either buy Defender or FFRR, they are all a similar price when of a similar spec. Through bad planning and product overlap they have made Disco redundant.

Looking at alternatives if the price of the L460 goes through the roof.

5.0 The pricing for a Defender is crazy, the Discovery is just hideous at any price.

Yes, Discovery is in good company with X7, Q7 GLS. They are all horrible designs. I wouldn't buy any of them.

The Discovery does at least offer the abilities you’d expect - the rivals have an advantage as cars in that they need to offer no pretence whatsoever at having off-road ability - a shape and a bit of height, that’s it.

Whenever I look at the back end of a GLS I can’t help but think that the designer was inspired by the shape of a potato.

Bit of a minefield this one -
Yes, the newer discovery looks awful, as for the new Defender, I will upset some people, I was looking at a parked Long wheel base model with that daft lunch box thingy on the side, and my Grand daughter said - 'it looks like my Tonka toy truck' She is eight years and I fear she is right, it looks like the designers have gone OTT.

I think that if they try to take the RR up into Bentley territory, they will be in for trouble. The top end luxury brands are not volume car makers, It's a bit like the cracking BMW tested on top gear, it was amazing, BUT the one tested was spec'ed up to around 140 to 150 Grand, so then it was up against a Bentley and an Aston Martin, so suddenly badge issues were a problem, if you are spending that money, against the other two the BMW wouldn't cut the mustard.

Would a luxury buyer buy a RR at super money when the brand also includes the Evoque etc. Unlike some people on here, many of the buyers of top end luxury cars choose to buy an image, not a vehicle. For that they want exclusivity, which the RR product range will not give them.

As for the Ineos defender copycat, reading all about their testing programme, it's quite possible they will be reliable, and yes very basic compared to the defender, but they are aiming at a market LR walked away from.
The Ineos market will be for buyers wanting working vehicles which the Ineos patently is. Yes, the new Defender is a good working vehicle, but now way too expensive for it's original purpose.

As for the last of the old defenders, recently I have seen several examples with raised suspension, snorkels and god knows how many extras , full black stealth treatment, and most were was detailed to the N'th degree where it was patently obvious that they never even go near wet grass, they seem to have become a fashion statement for some.

Personally I don't think LR will try taking the RR too high end, my reasoning being the cancellation of the the long wheelbase two door version, that they showed at one of the motor shows. That was super expensive, maybe they did not get the customer response they expected from the possible high end buyers.

Lastly, before anyone moans at my comments, remember the words 'Devils advocate'

I read that the target sales volume for the l460 was 40,000 per year. In contrast, Bentley sell 4,000 Benteygas a year and Rolls sells under 2000 Cullinans per year, which shows that the market shrinks very quickly once you get past £100k+

I still think it will be a lot easier to spec a £150k car with the new model. Not as if I can afford one, but I look forwards to picking one up n 8-10 years when my 405 moves on.

Merchy, I agree with you, I'd even go as far as to say the New Defender is a "lifestyle" car and only time will tell whether all of the tech on it will last. Personally, the 90 is the best looking car in the range, I think Simon @ Powerful's description of the box on the C Pillar looking like a For Sale sign on the 110 always makes me smile. For me, I'd never buy a Grenadier on principle, they made so much noise about it being British through and through, named it after a British pub and then headed off to those renowned British companies BMW for the engines, Steyr/Puch for the Drivetrain and you know how we said its going to built in Britain...well its not now, its going to be built in France.

I've had a call out of the blue from another dealer who I bought cars from previously and he has said its highly unlikely that my P400 AB will be built, but I've heard nothing from the supplying dealer. I just wish someone would be honest, here's what's happening, here are your options.

I'm car less, its driving me mad and I'm looking at P38's again.

I'm car less, its driving me mad and I'm looking at P38's again.

Hell no! Surely not!!!

Last night I googled on L460 to find the latest scoop. I was very surprised to see the results showing a June 2, 2021 article in a large Dutch newspaper. Would they have a scoop that the car magazines, or this forum, did not know about and was she indeed launched?

I clicked on the article in great anticipation, only to learn that some green sock journalist wrote about his casting for L460 marketing materials in Spain for 2,5 weeks starting next week and that he was very excited to be part of the launch of an Electric model. And then he found out that the electric model was planned for 2027 and that he did not want to be part of a combustion engine marketing campaign, although he could earn half a years salary and enjoy the best 4x4 by far.

I had to send him an email that by declining this gig he is not going to better the world and 1.000 other people will gladly take his spot.

Here is the link if you are interested and can read Dutch https://www.volkskrant.nl/tag/range-rover-l460-lijn if not Google Translate will help you, the story is quite pityfull. RR's that are part of my car timeline since I bought my first RR Classic in 1999:

On the waiting list for the RR EV MY2025

RR D250 Autobiography MY2023
RR P510e Autobiography MY2023
RR P530 LWB First Edition MY2023
RR EVOGUE Cabrio MY2017

RR P400e Autobiography MY2020

RR TDV6 Autobiography MY2016
RR TDV6 VOGUE MY2013
RR TDV8 VOGUE MY2009 & MY2006
RR TD6 VOGUE MY2004

RRC 3.9i VOGUE MY1994 & MY1992

Cam-Tech-Craig wrote:

I'm car less, its driving me mad and I'm looking at P38's again.

Hell no! Surely not!!!