Alistair wrote:

Wow - it continues to amaze me the length some people go to to defend crap tyres

Why bother with a FFRR ? Surely cars are just a commodity.

A full back to back test of all tyres on all cars is clearly impossible. However, there are tyres that perform consistently well and others that perform consistently badly and many others in between. I've taken the time to read and watch many reviews and it is always the 'premium' brands that come out top and always the cheaper ones that prefer worse. Sure, the middle of the field can be mixed and no one tyre usually sweeps the board & performs best in every condition, but the themes are consistent.

I run different summer & winter tyres - the difference is very noticeable No amateur pundit can ever really know - as you just can't perform an objective back to back test in identical conditions - but try watching some of the Tyre Reviews videos on You Tube to see the lengths they go to.

Most tyres are fine 90%+ of the time - the difference is very much art the margins - but you only need that 10m reduction in braking distance once and if can be the difference between life & death.....

You see there it goes again: "If you don't buy expensive tyres you could be causing death!" That's almost virtue-signalling to sponsor expensive tyres. Most accidents - more so these days - are caused by peeps under the influence of one thing or the other, or because they can't put their phones down when driving. The statistics for peeps driving that shouldn't be driving are also soaring up...
So give at least the top end budget tyres (just tyres that are not vastly over-priced) a break, that's all.
You tyre snobs!!!

Interesting correlation between safety and snobbery.

dexion7 wrote:

LT wrote:

Not relevant to Range Rovers, but see how budget tyres fair against more expensive brands in the 2021 Auto Bild 19 inch Summer Tyre Test:
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2021-A...e-Test.htm

its just another load of bolllocks sponsored by the well known and grossly-inflated-hi cost manufactures.

the requirements to stop quickly in the dry and stop quickly in the wet, place almost diametrically opposed requirements on the tyre design. apart from the balance the manufacturer strikes for that consideration the differences between tyres and brands are tiny. Tyres are a commodity.

if anyone has any evidence to show otherwise (apart from silly reviews), please post it up.

Ur20v – could you tell us how you determined that “ the common tyres that ‘work’ are Michelin, Goodyear, Continental, Pirelli as ‘first tier’ then Falken, Bridgestone and Toyo then the rest follow”
Whatever you mean by the term “first tier” is uncertain but you seem to have grouped the most expensive brands there?

Just stay away from Leaxani for your own safety! 50% longer to stop in the wet than the PS4 SUV!

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2020-S...e-Test.htm

It's not about buying the most expensive tyres, as there are expensive tyres that aren't great, it's about buying the best tyres for the conditions you drive in and the type of car. In the UK, that's having a tyre with short wet stopping distances and good aquaplaning performance! MY23 Panamera E-Hybrid
MY19 SDV8 Autobiography - Sold

RRover wrote:

You see there it goes again: "If you don't buy expensive tyres you could be causing death!" That's almost virtue-signalling to sponsor expensive tyres. Most accidents - more so these days - are caused by peeps under the influence of one thing or the other, or because they can't put their phones down when driving. The statistics for peeps driving that shouldn't be driving are also soaring up...
So give at least the top end budget tyres (just tyres that are not vastly over-priced) a break, that's all.
You tyre snobs!!!

People under the influence, using phones, distracted, etc. Yes, they cause accidents. With my good tyres I am better equipped to avoid those accidents. Isn't that the whole point?

Alistair wrote:

RRover wrote:

You see there it goes again: "If you don't buy expensive tyres you could be causing death!" That's almost virtue-signalling to sponsor expensive tyres. Most accidents - more so these days - are caused by peeps under the influence of one thing or the other, or because they can't put their phones down when driving. The statistics for peeps driving that shouldn't be driving are also soaring up...
So give at least the top end budget tyres (just tyres that are not vastly over-priced) a break, that's all.
You tyre snobs!!!

Entirely missing the point.

Just own the decision to compromise - don't pretend all tyres are equal. The definition of 'top end budget' is an interesting one, as is 'vastly over priced' - not sure how big a difference matters, but when rolled into the cost per mile of a FFRR it would be interesting.

I'm fine with people telling me they are economising and living with the compromise, but not those who try to delude themselves and others that there is no difference.

But we can't prove, either, that good budget tyres cause deaths...

You're not causing death, but neither are you doing everything you can to prevent it. Sure phones, drink, drugs etc etc may all be greater problems, but that's not the point of this thread.....

Ignoring whether or not the most expensive tyres are best or the if the reviews are biased......which you may think makes it hard to choose, but I think there are enough tests/reviews out there with very similar results to give you enough information to make a properly informed choice..... Why would you skimp on safety so save a few quid?

Let's say a set of tyres will last 30k miles and you've got 22" wheels, going for a budget brand would save you around £100 a tyre, so £400 which isn't a small amount of money but is only a fraction over 1p per mile which is nothing compared to fuel/road tax/depreciation/maintenance etc.

My eldest will be getting his first car in the next few months and if it doesn't have a set of matching decent (not necessarily expensive!) tyres on, then changing them is the first thing I'll do. Probably for a very good set of AS tyres (eg Goodyear Vector or Conti All Season) as that will give him the best all year round option. MY23 Panamera E-Hybrid
MY19 SDV8 Autobiography - Sold

MonkeyMan wrote:

People under the influence, using phones, distracted, etc. Yes, they cause accidents. With my good tyres I am better equipped to avoid those accidents. Isn't that the whole point?

Good driving practises will ALWAYS cause fewer road deaths: whatever tyres you're running - sponsored or not. Another equation that we 'could' bring into the argument also is the utter disgraceful condition of our UK roads... I've had to avoid several 9-12-inch pot-holes just about where the passenger side wheels/tyres would be over the past winter period alone... But more money goes into making the 'newly arrived' comfy and safe in five star hotels with all the perks than will ever be spent on OUR roads. And think of the road tax we have to pay for owning and using a TDV8 for instance, even though many are quite well equipped with numerous environmental friendly (don't get me on that one either) gadgets and gizmos to boot.

Those continentals on that ebay ad above look rather nice, I have to admit. OK priced too!

Alistair wrote:

Wow - it continues to amaze me the length some people go to to defend crap tyres

Why bother with a FFRR ? Surely cars are just a commodity.

A full back to back test of all tyres on all cars is clearly impossible. However, there are tyres that perform consistently well and others that perform consistently badly and many others in between. I've taken the time to read and watch many reviews and it is always the 'premium' brands that come out top and always the cheaper ones that prefer worse. Sure, the middle of the field can be mixed and no one tyre usually sweeps the board & performs best in every condition, but the themes are consistent.

I run different summer & winter tyres - the difference is very noticeable No amateur pundit can ever really know - as you just can't perform an objective back to back test in identical conditions - but try watching some of the Tyre Reviews videos on You Tube to see the lengths they go to.

Most tyres are fine 90%+ of the time - the difference is very much art the margins - but you only need that 10m reduction in braking distance once and if can be the difference between life & death.....

Martin2 wrote:

Ignoring whether or not the most expensive tyres are best or the if the reviews are biased......which you may think makes it hard to choose, but I think there are enough tests/reviews out there with very similar results to give you enough information to make a properly informed choice..... Why would you skimp on safety so save a few quid?

Let's say a set of tyres will last 30k miles and you've got 22" wheels, going for a budget brand would save you around £100 a tyre, so £400 which isn't a small amount of money but is only a fraction over 1p per mile which is nothing compared to fuel/road tax/depreciation/maintenance etc.

My eldest will be getting his first car in the next few months and if it doesn't have a set of matching decent (not necessarily expensive!) tyres on, then changing them is the first thing I'll do. Probably for a very good set of AS tyres (eg Goodyear Vector or Conti All Season) as that will give him the best all year round option.

its endless...

"why would you skimp on safety with cheap tyres"

please explain why you think cheap tyres have less safety

please explain why you consider that ALL cheap brands are lacking safety?

are all cheap brands the same?

still waiting for someone to provide any reliable evidence that expensive tyres are 'better' 2010 VSE [Roger]

My comments are aimed at no-one in particular - and I'm guilty of blurring with comments made on other threads & forums - so apologies for that - I haven't re-read all the comments on this specific thread which was recently resurrected

We might even be in broad agreement but expressing it differently

There are better & worse tyres depending on the type of vehicle, where, when, how you drive it etc. There is no universally best or worst tyre - you pretty much have to make your own compromise.

There are data points you can refer to - for me that is mostly reviews - but if you don't trust those, then you're really buying blind. I agree that reviews are not perfect, but what else can you do ?

As someone said earlier, for most of the UK, I'd be focussing on damp road performance as that seems to be the prevailing condition. The dry stopping distances are not nearly as widespread as the wet stopping, so I worry less about those.

There are tyres that are optimised for dry performance - you can buy those - they are often cheaper - and people buy them without thinking. Most ditch finder references seem to refer to everything being OK until it rained.

I try to play safe - the OE tyre that came with the car - I've therefore used them for years, they seems very capable & the reviews which include them rate then reasonably well in all categories, so I've just replaced with the same. I spend my winters in a ski resort though - so need a focussed tyre - there is only one 22 winter recommended by JLR - it does well in the tests - so I run those.

If you don't trust manufacturer recommendations or 'independent' tests, then I'm not sure what you do or how you can develop any confidence in your choice.

Maybe there is a cheap tyre out there that would sweep the board in a test & it's just the main stream media mafia & big brand marketing budgets that are preventing sheep like me being able to learn of it's existence.

Shades of grey though - the market has many brands that overlap each other in terms of quality particularly when all the other variables are factored in. You clearly can't change tyres on a daily basis to suit the conditions. Though I'm in the UK at the moment & my winters are still on as I've hardly been anywhere and it's still been cold & wet - must swap them this weekend now summer is here

The thread that keeps on giving

Almost as good as the supermarket fuel debate

dexion7 wrote:

Martin2 wrote:

Ignoring whether or not the most expensive tyres are best or the if the reviews are biased......which you may think makes it hard to choose, but I think there are enough tests/reviews out there with very similar results to give you enough information to make a properly informed choice..... Why would you skimp on safety so save a few quid?

Let's say a set of tyres will last 30k miles and you've got 22" wheels, going for a budget brand would save you around £100 a tyre, so £400 which isn't a small amount of money but is only a fraction over 1p per mile which is nothing compared to fuel/road tax/depreciation/maintenance etc.

My eldest will be getting his first car in the next few months and if it doesn't have a set of matching decent (not necessarily expensive!) tyres on, then changing them is the first thing I'll do. Probably for a very good set of AS tyres (eg Goodyear Vector or Conti All Season) as that will give him the best all year round option.

you seem to be saying you do believe reviews results generally and thus wish to buy expensive brands then you wonder why anyone would skimp, then you say you're going to use all-season tyres. if you were not going to skimp wouldn't you be better off changing to different tyres for the winter / summer? or fit soft compound for both seasons with reduced try life?

I keep saying that I don't buy on price!! Maybe you're assuming that the tope 2-3 tyres in a test are the most expensive, which maybe they are in some cases, but not always. As an example, I recommended a friend get either PS4 or F1 SS for his Golf GTI (18" wheels). The PS4S is the highest rated tyre in that size, but not by very much at all and is £160 vs £10-105 for the other 2 and a 'budget brand' tyre is £70-80. So a full set of PS4 will be £80 more than a Nankang....I really can't believe that anyone with sense would buy the budget tyre. I know you don't believe the tests, but it came last in 2 group tests and 39th out of 45 in the Autobild brake test.

There are budget tyres that did well in that test, better than some of the Premium brands, but I wouldn't dismiss them all but they aren't all available in the UK in the size you need (none in this particular example). Kinda Amera A1 is one of them, never heard of it, but they must have sent some large brown envelopes out!

As I don't (on purpose!) test tyres to the extreme in poor conditions, then what else is there to go on other than reviews, as long as you're looking at a number of different sources? Price isn't an indicator of performance as far as I'm concerned, so the only other option is the 3 categories on the tyre label. I do have summer and winter tyres (and 2 sets of genuine wheels, so hardly skimping....) and have done so ever since I opted out of the company car scheme. I think the latest AS tyres are actually better suited to UK winters than full winters, as they aren't great when the temperature are in double figures and we get such a variety of temperatures week on week through the winder months. They aren't quite as good in the snow, but that's so rare where I live and they do seem to be pretty close to winters on snow braking in particular.

Although my view on the 'best' AS tyres is based on reviews.....  MY23 Panamera E-Hybrid
MY19 SDV8 Autobiography - Sold