Siftah wrote:

All interesting points regarding hydrogen. I've certainly seen a few people touting hydrogen as being a better alternative to EV's but haven't yet come across anything that really seems to definitely back it up though. ...

I did a very quick "Google" and found a few hydrogen cars you can buy in the UK, e.g. https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/nexo

Their website puts the case for hydrogen to some extent and worth a browse. Although about 2/3 of the way down is a map showing just how few refueling stations there are in the UK.  2010 Range Rover TDV8 Baltic Blue Autobiography (2011 MY) - SOLD
1960 Land Rover SII SWB SW
2020 BMW R1250 RT LE
2021 Triton ST-125 (Monkey Bike)

supershuttle wrote:

I can see the debate has moved on a bit and I have to say I had lost interest but as a Tory myself I realise it is fashionable to blame us for everything - one of the previous posts blames the Tories for diesel, maybe worth reading this -https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715

Bl4ckD0g wrote:

Yeah I was thinking that. I thought the diesel revival in the UK was much later under labour. I arrived in the Uk in 1996 and remember distinctly many of my friends making fun of my “tractor”. I used to do about 20K miles and it made sense for me at the time. Never understood this fascination with diesel for the majority of low mileage drivers.

Heres a good reason for keeping petrol & diesel cars. And I know cobalt is used in mobile phones but a car battery requires approx 1000 times more than a mobile phone battery.

The oil and gas industry is highly regulated and doesn’t employ slave or child labour in the fuel chain. Unlike battery production as highlighted by Sky News. The environmental destruction is also disgusting. Gone to a good home: 2011 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Buckingham Blue with Ivory and clear glass = "Rory"
2025MY Defender D350 90 in Silicon Silver on coils
1974 Series 3 Lightweight = "Millie"
Many, many other Landies over the years
My preferred specialist: www.glenrands.co.uk
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There are no ‘free ride’ green energy’s when used on mass, there is always a cost be it human or environmentally, just no getting away from it. Most green policy’s are kicking the can down the road an making it someone else’s problem, either by country or time.

DrRob wrote:

The oil and gas industry is highly regulated and doesn’t employ slave or child labour in the fuel chain. Unlike battery production as highlighted by Sky News. The environmental destruction is also disgusting.

PaulTyrer wrote:

Heres a good reason for keeping petrol & diesel cars. And I know cobalt is used in mobile phones but a car battery requires approx 1000 times more than a mobile phone battery.

DrRob wrote:

The oil and gas industry is highly regulated and doesn’t employ slave or child labour in the fuel chain. Unlike battery production as highlighted by Sky News. The environmental destruction is also disgusting.

LOL Yeah right, you fell for it hook line and sinker...

Bl4ckD0g wrote:

PaulTyrer wrote:

Heres a good reason for keeping petrol & diesel cars. And I know cobalt is used in mobile phones but a car battery requires approx 1000 times more than a mobile phone battery.

Not it is not.

Besides the points already raised regarding the use in the petrochemical industries which totally nullifies your point anyway, it is a good reason to put sanctions on such countries that allow this, and companies who don't follow up on their obligations with regards to modern slavery laws. They are responsible to check their supply chain.

Well... not entirely sure about that...

Looks like >50% of the global usage of Cobalt is indeed in Lithium Ion batteries.

https://www.globalenergymetals.com/cobalt/cobalt-demand/
https://www.cobaltinstitute.org/assets/fil...out-Co.pdf

Interesting topic. As I'm now spending at least twice as much on road tax a month than I am on diesel, I've started looking for an EV replacement. They ain't cheap are they.

My favourite is the IPace, but need to start saving pennies to afford one, or even worse gain employment..

As part of my solar project and wish to go EV, I quickly looked at fast chargers... they are a no go for probably 95% of homes. Most homes in the UK have a 60 or if you are lucky a 100amp supply, a quick charger like a 60Kw is 250amps and a fast charger at 120kw is 500amp so they are both no goes for solar or mains supply. So no 2 hour charging at home.

On a standard home you are looking at being capped to ~6KW charging which has to be a dedicated circuit on its own capped at 30amps... so most EV’s will struggle to get fully charged over night and be ready fully charged for your next day... so ‘timers’ to avoid busy times on the national grid won’t be practical and if you are a regular commuter without charging opportunities your battery will be come more depleted each day lowering the range each day until you can get to either a fast charger or the weekend and not use the car for an extended period.

I still don’t get all the ‘it will be fine’, I just don’t think most people have really looked at the practicality and maths around EV’s.

You need to be doing very short journeys, have off street parking and a dedicated 30amp charging supply, at work charging. Able to afford the very high cost of EV’s (roughly double the standard IC cost at similar spec).

I want this to work but the ‘cost’ of ownership of a EV is too high at present (cost- practicality and finically).

Solar charging of EV’s looks even more problematic.

Going to look at hybrids but the very range on electric looks pathetic as well

You'll get 200 miles of range with 8 hours of charge on an 7kWh charger.

If you're commuting more than 200 miles a day and getting less than 8 hours of sleep a night, then not being able to keep your EV charged probably isn't your biggest challenge in life

It’s not as simple as that.

Most EV’s only have a 100-200 mile range at best, hybrids are mainly in 30-40 mile range.

7Kw is a dedicated charger and power supply- costly... also most rural property’s here in Spain have very small supplys and restricted tariffs - ours 5KWh.run AC and the cooker and there’s nothing left for an EV

I don’t do 200 miles every day but regularly do this monthly and sometimes on back to back days.

The restrictions just make a EV impractical- it would mean running two cars or change driving habits