Well my thoughts are that after jumping up and down on the Dealer Principles head for a couple of minutes I would politely ask how can the car be insured if it was been driven without the owners specific permission ? and since they always shaft you for a£17 "administration fee" when we ask for a courtesy car how about digging in to your pocket for the use of mine ? 2008 MY Supercharged
Rimini Red / Jet
four zone climate
remote park heater
and no ugly kid windows.
magnus satis quod turpis satis

i related on the PH thread about my Porsche when in for service turned up outside my local pub on the Saturday lunchtime and the 'mechanic' and his 'wife' got out

i said nothing at the time but several friends said ' Nick, thats your car'

needless to say an expensive service and repair work cost me not a penny

Maybe the MD wasn't aware that the car had gone on an extended road test? Why should he bother himself with every minutiae of what the workshop do?
This really is a non-event and there's far too much macho posturing going on both here and on PH about it, especially when none of us know exactly what the reasons for the vehicle's movements were, or what arrangements the owner may have agreed to when signing the car over to the dealership. Not sure you should be reading this bit.

GKP wrote:

Maybe the MD wasn't aware that the car had gone on an extended road test? Why should he bother himself with every minutiae of what the workshop do?
This really is a non-event and there's far too much macho posturing going on both here and on PH about it, especially when none of us know exactly what the reasons for the vehicle's movements were, or what arrangements the owner may have agreed to when signing the car over to the dealership.

MD not knowing? - then he's not fit to be MD

if he worked for me he would have been sacked - pure and bloody simple

so the MD does not know where clients cars are? - you could only make this up on a forum

it's not as you call it 'macho posturing' -its about people taking the car away from the 'place on work' without the owners approval (and thats a legal stance btw after talking to a solicitor this am) - in 'work hours' it could be justified as a road test though most dealers in prestige marques are only allowed by their insurers to have a limited number of people allowed to road test clients cars

GKP wrote:

Maybe the MD wasn't aware that the car had gone on an extended road test? Why should he bother himself with every minutiae of what the workshop do?
This really is a non-event and there's far too much macho posturing going on both here and on PH about it, especially when none of us know exactly what the reasons for the vehicle's movements were, or what arrangements the owner may have agreed to when signing the car over to the dealership.

in your 'avatar' is that your car or a 'clients'? - fair question given your stance

I don't work for a LR dealership - never have. I have worked for a prestigious sportscar dealership and on more than one occasion have taken customer's cars home. Hated it. The potential for having accusations of causing damage were far too stressful.
I once loaned a customer my own car - it was exactly the same car as his apart from colour etc - to take his car into work with me for the workshop to fix a boot closure issue. I did it as a favour to him because he lived relatively close to me. He took my car to work, I took his.
I didn't complain about the empty fuel tank when he returned my car, but he did complain about the dirty paintwork on his. I think he wanted me to somehow make it stop raining. Sometimes people are just stupid.

Why on earth would the MD know where the cars are? He has staff to look after such things.

So far they've been accused of TWOCing, being uninsured and there have been threats of jumping up and down on the MD's head. Macho internet posturing. And stupid. Not sure you should be reading this bit.

so let me get this right? - you let a customer borrow your private car?

with your managers approval?

who covered the insurance?

and again - if the MD does not know what his staff are doing with customers cars then he is 'not fit for purpose'

at the end of each working day he should check the work logs to check both progress and state of each customers car - thats his job as he 'signs off' each vehicle

don't blame the service/workshop manager - its due 'diligence' and part of his remit as MD

GKP wrote:

I don't work for a LR dealership - never have. I have worked for a prestigious sportscar dealership and on more than one occasion have taken customer's cars home. Hated it. The potential for having accusations of causing damage were far too stressful.
I once loaned a customer my own car - it was exactly the same car as his apart from colour etc - to take his car into work with me for the workshop to fix a boot closure issue. I did it as a favour to him because he lived relatively close to me. He took my car to work, I took his.
I didn't complain about the empty fuel tank when he returned my car, but he did complain about the dirty paintwork on his. I think he wanted me to somehow make it stop raining. Sometimes people are just stupid.

Why on earth would the MD know where the cars are? He has staff to look after such things.

So far they've been accused of TWOCing, being uninsured and there have been threats of jumping up and down on the MD's head. Macho internet posturing. And stupid.

GKP wrote:

I don't work for a LR dealership - never have. I have worked for a prestigious sportscar dealership and on more than one occasion have taken customer's cars home. Hated it. The potential for having accusations of causing damage were far too stressful.
I once loaned a customer my own car - it was exactly the same car as his apart from colour etc - to take his car into work with me for the workshop to fix a boot closure issue. I did it as a favour to him because he lived relatively close to me. He took my car to work, I took his.
I didn't complain about the empty fuel tank when he returned my car, but he did complain about the dirty paintwork on his. I think he wanted me to somehow make it stop raining. Sometimes people are just stupid.

Why on earth would the MD know where the cars are? He has staff to look after such things.

So far they've been accused of TWOCing, being uninsured and there have been threats of jumping up and down on the MD's head. Macho internet posturing. And stupid.

i've been MD of various companies and its my job to ensure everything is done correctly - any failure by employees would be a failure by myself for failing to instigate the proper 'checks and balances'

as a manager its my responsibility to ensure that my employees perform to the necessary standard - nobody else

thats why i was always the last person to leave the premises on most nights - long after my employees had gone to the pub!

and on occasions when i could not perform that role i had a designated person to perform the task!

nick h wrote:

so let me get this right? - you let a customer borrow your private car?

with your managers approval?

nick h wrote:

who covered the insurance?

nick h wrote:

and again - if the MD does not know what his staff are doing with customers cars then he is 'not fit for purpose'

at the end of each working day he should check the work logs to check both progress and state of each customers car - thats his job as he 'signs off' each vehicle

GKP wrote:

...

Nope, that would be the workshop manager's job. There's no need for the MD to get that involved in the day to day running of the place.

wrong in so many ways - if the MD does not know what happens on a day to day basis then he is not doing his job

its a fricking car 'shop' - not say BA or RR

Then why the need for managers? Not sure you should be reading this bit.

I think the key word here is permission!!

A dealer should not do ANYTHING with a clients personal property unless they have proper permission from the client, and that a senior member of staff within the dealership has also authorised such action. To put it in to perspective, at LPR our General Manager would need to expressly authorise such action, and would want a detailed justification of why is was beneficial and necessary.

Very rarely (perhaps once or twice a month - based on us seeing 30+ cars a day through our Aftersales Dept), we may suggest that a vehicle is driven on an extended road test. This is usually if there is an intermitant problem that is not evident whilst the car is with us, or an issue that only manifests itself after a prelonged journey. Even then the vehicle would only be driven by a senior member of the team, directly home and back, and under the dealerships insurance cover.

There is just far too much at stake should the vehicle become damages, and not only that it is disrespectful.

So, yes it is perfectly normal, acceptable and beneficial providing it is in full and proper agreement with the owner of the vehicle.

James

When my Rangey was in the local dealership during the week I commented to the receptionist that I had left it with a full tank of fuel and expected it ti return with almost the same. Her reply was "Sir, are you telling me that you do not wish us to carry out a proper test of the vehicle before we return it?" My reply was yes I would like it returned tested but I will not be happy if it comes back to me with 40-50 miles more on the odo and 3/4 of a tank of diesel. The car was returned with the gauge on full and 8 miles more on the odo Quite fair I thought. 2018 Mini Countryman Cooper S E All4 PHEV in Melting Silver - it’s whisper quiet in EV and polluter modes