Please don't beat up on me for being an idiot, I cannot take it. However, I would like some advice and sorry this is so long, so thanks to anyone who takes the time..

I bought in Oct on finance a black with sand interior Vogue SE, 2007 3.6 TDV8 from a dealer in Redditch- he said the FF was an ex demo from Mayfair Stratstone and because of that it was specced to the hilt. I love it, but it has given me a headache.

80k miles.
£13,500

Lots of little niggling issues. Which I reported immediately. The dealer offered to "take a look and see what he could do". The advert did not list all the features that the car would be expected to have. This is in the dealers favour.

However, he did advertise it as 1 owner, and FLSH. It is neither, it is 2 owners and the last stamp was specialist. On this basis I can reject the car.

Issues:
1) Passenger mirror not auto dimming.
2) Rear parking camera not working. - I fixed that.
3) Venture cam not working. - I fixed that.
4) His "full service" at point of sale was woeful and amounted to an oil change but no filter - I have had it given a full service at local specialist £600
I also then add gearbox oil and filter changed, axel oils and transfer box done - additional £600

5) Remote for DVD not working.
6) No remote for timed heating (I bought one off ebay £50)
7) Rear washer wasnt working at all on rear windscreen. I fixed that.
Rear washer was now leaking inside car - I fixed that.
9) Rear washer now leaking slowly for approx 30 mins of dribbling outside of car.
10) Heated seats not heating - local technical dudes have been busy on this, but no fix yet.
11) TPMS issues - i fixed that.
12) heated windscreen seemed to only half work and rain sensors a bit lazy. A cracked windscreen and autoglass replacement has fixed that, but they need to come back and sort out the wind noise.

The dealer is a muppet. Couldnt clear the service light, couldnt clear the TPMS error, said it would be valeted and MOPd - pics show how dirty it was when I picked it up. The dealers salesman picked me up 30 minutes late at Redditch (It was freezing and raining) and was still busy with the diagnostic tool trying to clear errors. I would have walked away, but really wanted this car for a new job the following day and had spent weeks looking and didnt really have the time or will to keep shopping. On test drive the car was nice, and had what I wanted. He agreed to fix some obvious issues, valet, mop and full service. I trusted him, he had millions of pounds of high end cars for sale, some Ferraris at £300k. I thought he was a quality dude.
Part of my problem was caused by a lack of knowledge, being new to RR there was too much for me to figure out and test, so I just said to him "I wont mess you about on price and will pay your asking price, as long as you make sure it all works".

He did try to put through the finance at £500 more than the ticket price, but I think this was an honest mistake as Autotrader and his own website had different prices. As I read through the paper work for the finance they were "very surprised" and said "No one ever reads the finance contract" - shame on them for trying to make me feel silly for checking the small print.

Local indy that did a proper full service said "Someone has loosened your coolant hoses and left them loose - you have lost 6 litres of coolant" - this was rectified. Not sure why the dealers own mechanic who did the service didnt notice this or the low coolant level.

When I was waiting to pick up the car, I asked for it to be ready for Thursday. The dealer wouldn't commit to a time. I phoned him three times over seven days as I needed to plan my week around this. A round trip to him and back by train and driving back in the new FF takes 7 hours.
On the third time I called him, he exploded at me and cancelled the sale and said he would refund my deposit. I had to grovel to get the sale back on track. He is a dick, and clearly uses this aggressive behaviour to control people and control the conversations to his advantage. He did say he hates his job to me even though it has clearly made him very wealthy - he trades from his large farm house.

What needs fixing now is - 1) rear washer leak, 2) heated seats 3) auto dimming glass.

I have spent over £1000 on this in addition to the £13,500 purchase price.

I have asked for him to pay for the work at a local garage to me. He wont accept this. I have asked for a small refund based on the fact that the car is not 1 owner, not FLSH so not worth as much as he asked. Also that the long list of faults mean it should have been sold cheaper. He has not agreed to any refund but will accept the FF back and refund everything. I am reluctant, it seems good apart from the niggles. Things that dont work do upset me though and I want it all working. It has taken a lot of my time to fix things, take it to garages, deal with the finance company and the dealer on phone and email and I am loosing sleep a little bit now.

The finance company has been "negotiating" on my behalf for some months now and achieved nothing but a waste of time. They even had an independent inspection come out and assess the car, then asked me to get three quotes - when I asked what they intended to do with those three quotes bearing in the mind the dealer seems unwilling to compromise, they got uppety and said "ah, we cant do anything, the dealer wants to repair the car himself and we need to let him have one chance"...so they were asking me to jump through hoops for no reason.

1) I do not trust the dealer - he is aggressive and controlling and will not commit to fixing anything or any time frame leaving me without the vehicle for an indefinite period of time. I do have another car, but don't want to commute 350 miles a week in it. If I have to use other car for a while, I will do.
2) The quality of the dealers work is appalling.
3) Who loosened the hoses? Even the mechanic who works for the dealer if bearing a grudge against the dealer could cause problems. Something as simple as sand in the oil could be undetectable and come back to haunt me.
4) It will take me 7 hours to drop the vehicle back to him and get home.
5) another 7 hours to collect it when it is ready and maybe not even fixed and god knows how long he will keep it for - he could just waste my time by pretending to fix it and then phone me after two weeks and say "it isnt economically viable for me to fix this". He has already said he is willing to accept the vehicle back.



I have asked the finance company for exactly what I can expect financially if I reject the vehicle (admin fees, refunds for work done etc) and how the process works if i decide to reject the car. It sounds like I will get some of the cost for work refunded but lose the monthly payments I have made and the deposit. That loss probably totals about £1200-£1500 so far. If they refund all the costs for the work I have done this will probably be about £1300

I cannot decide if:
1) I should let the dealer attempt to fix the issues.
2) Or should I cut my losses and keep going with fixing this up. Looking on Autotrader £13,500 seems quite cheap for a VSE 3.6tdv6 with 80k miles and that spec. So perhaps paying £13500 and putting some work and money in to this is about right?
3) Or should I reject the vehicle based on the lies about the no of owners and FLSH and get a new one ?

I have done about 5000 miles in it and it does drive very nicely and seems to have be ok. Quick, smooth, quiet. It seems to be fully loaded with every option. Even the nice aluminium gear nob which some seem to have leather instead.

Technically the dealer can reject doing any work because i have had work done on the car elsewhere. Also, because he didnt advertise it with auto dim mirrors or heated seats he doesnt have to repair these items. However, I can reject the vehicle on the basis of the mis-representation.


Photos of this MOPd and valetted car when I collected it - appalling eh ?

Personally, I'd take it on the chin & move on

You've already committed a lot of time and effort and are most of the way there - I'd forget trying to get even with the dealer or recovering any cash and just look forward to getting the car right and living happily ever after.

As for the loose hoses being malicious, I'd doubt it, there are easier and more effective ways to do that - more likely the coolant was drained or another component replaced and they simply forgot to tighten them again

I agree with Alistair - you got it for a decent price, it drives well and has a good spec. Anytime I change my vehicle I always allow £500 - £1000 for the ‘unexpected’. A ‘full service’ prior to delivery from a car dealer usually means the absolute minimum, or less! I agree, the quality of the pre-delivery valet is shocking! You’ve almost got it the way you want it so move on and enjoy the FF

I agree with Alistair.

You got the car you wanted at an acceptible price, and have fixed most of the issues, albeit ones you might not have been aware of at the time of sale. If you sent it back who is to say you could find a better car for the same money ?
Given the time and miles you gave had it, I would expect the seller to revalue the car at less than the sale cost now too, let alone other losses you will have to cover.
If it had a major engine or drive train issue I might think differently, but for ancillary items and an additional owner it's not worth rejecting.

Trying to get stuff sorted after the sale is always going to be tricky, especially when you are so far away.
Treat it as a private sale (ie sold as seen).

Given the condition it was sold in, I wouldn't trust the seller to do anything on the car.

I'm sorry to hear your stressing over the issues, but for me life is too short. Move on and enjoy driving your lovely car  Too many toys, not enough time

2011 4.4 TDV8 AB Black

Ps. Maybe you should name the dealer in the Dealership Section?

A typical dealer experience, under the circumstances I'd just get on with my life, it's not worth your effort. If the car is fundamentally good enough just continue to make it your own.

I bought mine 2weeks ago from a dealer, bought it blind and had it delivered - with a number of incidentals.. but the dealer is 350miles away and wriggling.. this was over £17k.
I really cannot be bothered chasing them.. rather next time, I will be more careful...that said, I am very pleased with my car.. 2010 FF 4.4 TDV8 Vogue - Gone
2007 FF VSE 3.6 TDV8 - Gone
2011 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6- Gone
2003 FF TD6 Vogue - Gone
2006 FF TD6 - Gone
2007 FF 3.6 VSE - For sale
2011 FF 4.4 TDV8 - Current

i agree with all the above..the dealer wont be much help now he's sold it to you...

we've all been there sometime in our lives where we've been 'stung' but life's to short ...

withe the help of the forum you should be able to sort out the niggles and then have a lovely FF... ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
.

Still for sale on his website ?
http://www.asmuk.co.uk/land-rover-range-ro...re-6164541 BMW X3 30e XDrive M Sport
GoneBMW 330e
Gone MY2016 RR Vogue Fuji White SDV8 with a few extras...
Gone MY2016 Discovery Sport HSE

REJECT!! (if you can!)

I would then (if possible) take dealer to Small claims court for the extra outlay you have had to make.

For a few Grand more you can have a very nice 2010/2011 - 4.4 TDV8 and get a warranty with it. Well worth it.

reviews are interesting! ?

https://www.cardealerreviews.co.uk/dealers...re-england

Last edited by Dolphinboy on 2nd Feb 2018 11:03am. Edited 1 time in total

For what it’s worth - my view, option 1 is a none starter, an awkward dealer a long way from you and a list of problems that a lot of people would consider petty on a 10 year old car won’t have a happy outcome.
Option 2 looks good but are you really ever going to be happy with it now?
Which leads to option 3, if you’re the sort of person who expects everything to work all of the time (I know we SHOULD be able to expect this!) then I think that you will need to expect to have your hand in your pocket regularly or take the opportunity to bail out of this one and maybe consider if a Range Rover is the right car for you?

You have done 5000 miles, so IMHO I think u wouldn’t win much in the small claims... not worth the bother as u will get very bothered and het up... fix it and enjoy..  Filters are in fact so good that in certain circumstances, when the ambient air is already polluted, a diesel car will tend to extract more particles from the air than it emits. Emissions Analytics worked with........etc etc

He who dies with the most toys wins...

Fantastic responses thanks everyone.
First up - Adi, yes, that is the dealers site and the FF i bought. Nice bit of detective work there!

To be honest, when I took this to the finance company I was of the mind that I would just try my luck and put it all behind me if I didn't get a result.

Dolphin, you sound like me - once i get the bit in my teeth I dont like to let go and small claims court was definitely on my to-do list. I have been through the process a few times and found it to be excellent and cheap.

Cass - would I be happy with it? I think so if I put it all behind me and just crack on. hand in pocket - yeah kind of prepared for that and wont worry too much, but right now it just feels a little like I am playing catch up to get on top of stuff. With the current cold weather the heated seats would be nice.

kgeddes - I've put a note in the dealer section, with a link to this thread. Hope that is ok

Everyone else. I think this is what I was hoping to hear - just let it go rather than let it eat me up. I agree looking for another one comes with cost, inconvenience, risk, and what not.

A large part of me did feel like just putting it behind me, and talking it through has definitely helped with making that decision knowing that it is the route others would also take. I dont like to loose a battle with a business if i feel they have not done right, but sometimes we have to pick our fights more carefully.

I'm already starting to feel better about keeping it and dealing with the remaining issues

I'll get a new rubber seal for the spindle on the rear washer, probably less than a pound, and someone on here has posted a link to the right kind. Then it might only be two issues. The mirror glass was on ebay for about £40 IIRC, and the reason it doesnt dim is the dealer replaced a broken unit with the a cheap after market. so that might be another quick win.

Just those pesky seats, which I am expecting to run into four figures to fix. But when it's done, I'll feel like I have earned the right to own the car.

Thanks a million everyone.

Good call... and sounds like you will of saved this FFRR & the car will lead a long and happy life...

If only the pesky seats were just a fuse...... I’m sure someone here will have a realistic and economical solution. I’m pretty sure there was a thread, with a blow by blow account of doing just that

Ps

Try here for example


http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic44946.html Filters are in fact so good that in certain circumstances, when the ambient air is already polluted, a diesel car will tend to extract more particles from the air than it emits. Emissions Analytics worked with........etc etc

He who dies with the most toys wins...

Dolphinboy wrote:

reviews are interesting! ?

https://www.cardealerreviews.co.uk/dealers...re-england

I'm with the others too, it's normal to spend a grand plus off the cuff when you buy a used RR product. More so if it's ten years old.

Some of the faults are small and niggly and he couldn't reasonably be expected to have checked things like dimming mirrors and every camera. That it was badly serviced? Not a surprise - I only trust good indies.

Car looks tidy, not expensive, wipe your mouth for the few bob you have spent, put him a bad review on Google, FB and any other platform people actually read and move on.

He might cave in to a County Court attempt just to get rid of you if you want to get a few quid back. If you have the time and energy for that. 2017 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography in black
2018 D300 SE Velar in champagne
1982 Rolls Royce Silver Spirit in green
Spiffing wheel centre caps, L322 sill repair panels, etc