No doubt electric motors are the future, but until they sort out the battery tech, its a long long way off in my books. The limited life of current battery tech stops me ... I generally don't buy new cars, so it would likely be a few years old ... so the battery would be a few years down the line and lost a notable part of its life by then. V8 or else ...

I'm not sure about that?

The Supercharged 3.0 is 340hp and the 4.4 SDV8 is 339hp.
Of course the SDV8 should be a bit quicker to 60mph, but that supercharged 3.0 is a peach and will hold its own when on the move, well it is in the Jag anyway.

Now, both are £84k, with a few options you are close to £90k, let's call it £80k with discount?
That car is going to lose around 50% of list over 3 years for someone only doing 15k a year, so let's say £40K or £1100 a month.

The guys at Lan Rover said the 3.0 supercharged is showing 24mpg compared to 28mpg on their TDV8.
Which seems to back up what the US guys are saying too, most are seeing 20-21mpg (us, so 24-26mph UK).

If you are doing 15k miles a year that is £270 a month in fuel compared with £240 a month on the diesel.
30k miles a year and it is £520 a month compared with £480 for the diesel.

So when you add up depreciation (1100), insurance (50), servicing etc. (100) and then fuel at either £520 and £480 you are left with £1520 vs £1490.
So just under 2% difference.

Doing 3000 a month it is what? £1730 vs £1770.
So 2.5% difference.

You may say you get 35mpg from your TDV8, but you would probably get 28mpg from the Supercharged 3.0 in that case.



As I said, I don't get people who buy a new car that loses the best part of £55,000 over 3 years and say they would love a petrol but bought the diesel to save money. I don't think they have done the maths properly.

I think the problem is many compare old petrols with modern diesels, both in economy terms and performance.
NA petrols can be lethargic and the old V8s incredibly thirsty, but some of the modern petrols I have owned have blown me away. The 3.0 supercharged Jag unit is a stunner.

PS, I sound really negative, I'm not at all, I really do like my TDV8 and I said I would never own another diesel before trying this, and I would have an L405 4.4 in a heartbeat too.  Porsche 911 (996)
2015 BMW 5 Series Touring
Not got a LR of any kind at the mo, and got itchy feet.

There's a lot of fair points to answer there (and I'll have to admit that I hadn't even noticed a V6 petrol in the price list, not until you mentioned it!) but one thing that stands out is comparing a higher capacity diesel, with a lower capacity petrol engine, by quoting near equal bhp figures misses the major attraction of diesel to me - torque. The current SDV6 produces 750 Nm of torque, further down the rev range and across a broader rev range, Vs a comparatively weedy 450 Nm with the V6 petrol; this is the major attraction of a big diesel to me

I have a soft spot for supercharged petrol cars since owning a mew MINI Cooper S, from 2007-10. Unlike even the very best turbos, the throttle response was instant and it had remarkable bottom end for a 1.6. It also made a lot of great supercharger noises, which can be addictive Unfortunately, superchargers (unlike turbochargers) by their very nature put quite a constant load on an engine; the MINI's supercharger was reckoned to be taking around 50 bhp just to drive the supercharger at full chat. This means robust (and heavy) engines, high CO2 figures and catastrophic fuel consumption. The MINI was 207g and averaged about 28mpg with gentle driving, but would drop to low 20's in traffic.

I know that the RR engine is not the same, but the basic rules of supercharging aren't that different. Combine a 3.0 V6, with a 2.4 tonne body and with even a modern (non 2003) design, I'd expect something closer to 20 mpg, with the SDV8 returning around 28 mpg, whatever the government mandated test figures might suggest.

I'd looked at used too and while buying a heavily depreciating new car might be madness, if everyone bought used they'd soon be no more used cars to buy! Slightly more seriously, I found it a lot of money to risk on a such a complex used car, without knowing enough about its history and what I did see was deeply flawed for one reason or another; with limited amounts of warranty left, each one I saw looked like a risk too far for the huge amounts of money involved.

speaking to a guy the other day who has a Mitsubishi outlander hybrid and he said he has spent £30 on petrol in 6 months and loves it,he has a charger at work .I guess electric will work for a lot of people but not all !

Red Merle wrote:

The current SDV6 produces 750 Nm of torque, further down the rev range and across a broader rev range, Vs a comparatively weedy 450 Nm with the V6 petrol; this is the major attraction of a big diesel to me

It isn't the cost of the fuel, it is the time wasted putting fuel in the thing. My SDV8 gets 550 miles out of most tanks. A 5.0 petrol would get half that. I had the 4.2SC many moons ago and it did my head in - the aeons spent in petrol stations, not being able to do a trip to Northumberland without filling up.

I test drove a 5.0SC a couple of months ago. I casually looked at fuel consumption - 8 mpg on the trip computer. I decided that I couldn't face that again.

On hybrids, I bought my wife a hybrid Outlander. She's done about 3000 miles in it and has put £100 of fuel in it. She charges it every night but equally she does some longer journeys in it too.

Completely agree with you there, I wouldn't even consider a V8 supercharged in a big heavy car like the RR, my comments were aimed more at cars in general, now we have some super efficient petrols, that are not seen as fuel of the devil like some see diesel, I'm surprised we don't see more being sold.

1.4tfsi vs 2.0tdi is a good example, pretty much the same MPG, petrol A3 or Golf is around 10% cheaper, what you save in depreciation pretty much pays for half your fuel costs, yet still everyone buys the diesel to do 10k miles a year.

As a country we have this notion that 'we must buy diesel' even though a petrol is often nicer to drive, lighter, nicer clutch and gear change and now nearly as economical and actually cheaper to run over 3 years. I don't think we will ever get away from that. We will jump from diesel straight to electric. Porsche 911 (996)
2015 BMW 5 Series Touring
Not got a LR of any kind at the mo, and got itchy feet.

Likewise there, as I just prefer a good diesel over even a good petrol (and I definitely do the mileage to justify it), I know that my next move is certain to be away from diesel and it will be towards electricity. Come to think of it, I probably owned my last ever petrol car back in 2002. If it means that I can run, what is likely to be one of the last of its kind, for the next 6-10 years, I'll be very happy with that

MrP, if you ever make it this far up country you're welcome to use my charging point..  Current: TDV8 (3.6) RRS HSE



Past: TDV8(4.4) Vogue
Discovery 3 Commercial
TDV8(3.6) Vogue
TD6 Vogue
D2 V8 ES
D1 V8 ES
RR Vogue Classic

My wife has just bought an electric car: Renault Zoe year 2015, £6k + lease on battery. It's absolutely amazing. Now I love my Vogue year 2011 to bits and will never part with it, but apart from long journeys and towing the caravan, or just to impress someone, I can't see me getting it out of the garage much now. I have spent a couple of days cleaning and polishing till it looks like a new car, bought a dust cover and will sit out in the garage every now and then (with a beer) adding extra polish till the day comes when I can justify a blast down the road. I think the electric car has well and truly evolved, great things yet to come in the near future.

how much is the battery lease Cavalier?
. Cheers, Greg
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2011 Vogue SE 4.4 with lots of toys in Stornaway

The battery car I'm afraid has not evolved enough yet! If you live in a metropolis it may well be fine, but when you live in a rural area with no public transport and need a car to get around and travel over 70 miles a day just for work, with no chance of a charging point for that flat battery moment...

So as much as I agree with you that battery power and in days to come hydrogen power will be the norm, for now it's still going to be diesel power for me. Current: TDV8 (3.6) RRS HSE



Past: TDV8(4.4) Vogue
Discovery 3 Commercial
TDV8(3.6) Vogue
TD6 Vogue
D2 V8 ES
D1 V8 ES
RR Vogue Classic

gonna_go_double_r wrote:

how much is the battery lease Cavalier?
.

Unnecessary quote removed

The current Zoe has a range of 200 miles, twice the amount you say you use a day. Even the shorter range Zoe at 80 mile range would still see manage your daily drive. You charge it yourself at home each night on your home charger. The government pay £500 pounds towards this, it costs you £150. No road tax. £2 to charge up for 80 miles travel.
Your daily comute of 70 miles seems the perfect scenario for an electric car as a second vehicle.
If you ever got to the point of having a complete flat battery, the warranty covers you to picked up on a flat bed and taken to your nearest charge point.

I hear exactly what you are saying! But the purchase cost of a battery vehicle makes it unrealistic at the moment. to be honest I'm more than happy with my old fashioned combustion engines for the time being. Current: TDV8 (3.6) RRS HSE



Past: TDV8(4.4) Vogue
Discovery 3 Commercial
TDV8(3.6) Vogue
TD6 Vogue
D2 V8 ES
D1 V8 ES
RR Vogue Classic