1993 EFi auto petrol.

Slowly coming to the end of my tether now - any help would be appreciated. I'm not a electrical wizz nor a totally competent mechanic but thought I would have I have enough common sense to sort this but after a total on 9 hours so far... perhaps not.....

The old girl was ticking over nice recently and just decided to stop. A couple of hic-cups then silence. The fuel gauge shows quarter of a tank which I suspect is correct. Just in case I have added another 5 litres.

I have checked the main efi and fuel pump relays 22 and 23, under the drivers seat and all clicking ok. fuel pump primes at the first ignition turn.

All leads, dizzy cap, rotor arm and plugs were changed a few months ago. Decided to look at the electrical side of the ignition. Tested for a spark at the king lead and only got one spark on crank then nothing. as a cheap option I have changed the coil but to no avail. Connecting batt +ve to both poles of the coil showed 10.6 volts each. Decided to take distributor out and renew amplifier. After doing so am still getting approx 10 volts across the batt +ve to coil terminals which i think should not be happening?

can a dying battery cause these issues? I am not competent enough to remove an injector to see of the fuel is getting through although checking spark plug before and after cranking shows no sign of wetness from fuel - is this normal too?

Fuses C3 and C4 are ok (although the symbols on the cover are an engine with lighting strike for both - not a petrol pump, not sure what the relevance is)

Inertia switch is down ok.

I'm getting myself a bit confused now because if the above voltages are not supposed to occur when coil testing, plus no spark and the plugs are dry this points to both fuelling AND ignition elec issues to my simple mind.

Could the ECU be at fault? Would you buy a new battery? Is there something which disables both spark and fuelling?

Any ideas or comments would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

Adrian 405 AB exec seats Baltic and Cirrus
93 RR Classic efi

Remember it's easier to get forgiveness than permission!

Gone in order:
4.4 TDV8 SE - gone to a good home
93 Classic hard dash Plymouth Blue
03 L322 Oslo Blue
2000 Disco TD5 ES Epsom Green
98 P38 Rioja Red
89 Classic Cairngorm Brown

sounds like fuelling to start with. you have some voltage at coil, this could be better, and maybe via the ballast resistor etc.
First thing, go to halfords type shop get some easy start. (£5) remove airflow meter hose, and spray into plenum, (towards engine) for a few seconds. (with it open, with fingers.) replace hose, try and start it. (ensure you have had the battery on charge, whilst you went for easy start. (1 hour) if it fires, then, (we know it sparks)you need to look more at say fuel pressure. i had one that would not revv up. it held back and died, on flooring the pedal. turned out to have similar symptom to the l322 v8. ie fuel pump had no pressure. to get round this and prove the fault, and then buy the pump. i used an old 80's jag inline fuel pump. they are a bit overkill, but with some small bore hose, i interupted the fuel line, and wired it in, and it had power restored. if still fuelling issue, the pumps are a unit, (in those days, and expensive) your fuel pressure regulator could be knackered. this is at rear of engine from memory. it keeps fuel pressure high, and all excess fuel runs past it (via relief valve) and then back to fuel tank. if you look for this pipe returning to tank, and remove it, you will get fuel coming out (returning) proving you are getting some fuel pressure. (pump is pumping up)
from my old classic days, i had some issues with the alternator, and this caused some horrendous rough running issues. this happended twice. ('G' reg 3.9) try the easy start method, (its a highly volatile fuel gas, like crack cocaine for engines) and come back for some ignition type questions.

a new ignition coil is around £20 -a good investment

^^ wot he said, plus if your battery is slightly flat then it could be causing no end of issues as most of the ignition system will cease to work at 9 volts, and you are rather close to that figure

If your not getting a spark then it's not going to start.... I'd be looking at getting regular sparks from the dizzy centre lead before I started on the plumbing  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

John, Sorry, have to disagree with your method of easy start with one of them, if you spray it in, then refit the hose, walk round to the drivers seat and try to start the easy start will more than likely backfire, destroying the MAF and the airbox... better to get it cranking and get someone else to do a couple of squirts while air is being drawn into the engine...

Mind you don't think it will in this case as he says he only got one spark...

The engine ECU is up under the drivers side of the dash, it is possible to pull the plug partly out by inadvertently pulling on the loom with your left foot...

Easiest way to check for fuel is to find the schrader valve (tyre valve) on the fuel rail, drivers side in the middle IIRC, and press it in with something non metallic, you will know if there is any pressure there straight away...

Other things to check are engine earth lead is clean both ends and all low tension side of ignition system connections are good and clean.

The engine ECU only controls the injection system on your Rangie, the ignition system is totally separate and a stand alone system, so there won't be a common fault between them... unless it's battery related...

Good luck  Pete

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I've had the hall effect sensor fail in the distributor.........

If it is flooded, I used to remove the injector fuse and crank until clear, can't remember which one but it is in the engine bay fuse box.

You could also remove a plug and see if wet with petrol, if you remove them all the petrol will evaporate over time/night. Regards
Royston

2008 4.2 Supercharged Autobiography
1994 Classic Vogue SE
1999 Rover BRM
1987 Rover Vitesse Twin Plenum

Thanks for the input gents.

The schrader value was fitted post 94 apparently so more inclined to stick to the ignition side at present given my level of expertise.

Looking again this morning I've noticed a very slight weep from the top of the battery (as if the battery top panel has come away from the sides in one corner. I think I'll bite the bullet and go for a new battery as it will need one and who knows - it might be the culprit.

Put the multimeter on the battery this morning 10.4 volts.

Thanks again 405 AB exec seats Baltic and Cirrus
93 RR Classic efi

Remember it's easier to get forgiveness than permission!

Gone in order:
4.4 TDV8 SE - gone to a good home
93 Classic hard dash Plymouth Blue
03 L322 Oslo Blue
2000 Disco TD5 ES Epsom Green
98 P38 Rioja Red
89 Classic Cairngorm Brown

sounds like you've got a duff cell in that battery.... it might be 10.4 volts standing, but when you crank over the engine I bet it's dropping below the magical 9 volts to the ignition  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

I would agree with that, got said in the first post you only got a single spark on cranking, if be wanting to know where the others went... And as above, you may have enough battery to charge the coil initially before cranking for the first spark , but once it's turning the battery voltage drops quickly and no more spark. V8 or else ...

I personally would start with the battery, as it sounds as if it needs doing as a matter course if the corner has lifted.

The thing which possibly points to potential other problems such as alternator rather than battery is the fact it was running and died, I would have thought if it was running the battery would have little effect.  There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
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2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

Brand new battery now fitted - no change I'm afraid.

Would a bad alternator stop the spark on cranking?  405 AB exec seats Baltic and Cirrus
93 RR Classic efi

Remember it's easier to get forgiveness than permission!

Gone in order:
4.4 TDV8 SE - gone to a good home
93 Classic hard dash Plymouth Blue
03 L322 Oslo Blue
2000 Disco TD5 ES Epsom Green
98 P38 Rioja Red
89 Classic Cairngorm Brown

wouldn't have thought it would, as the alternator wouldn't be pushing anything out at cranking speeds, would need the engine running to produce any significant voltage.

do you now have good voltage at the coil?
good grounding?
Spark at the plug?

If you have voltage but no spark then the coil may be at fault.

How old are the HT leads, have you checked their condition? Is the main lead from the Coil to the Dizzy OK.

Take the Dizzy cap off and have a look at the state of the Rotor arm and contacts on the inside of the cap.  There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

Cheers NMJ and all.

Leads, plugs, cap, rotor all replaced a coupe of months ago as general maintenance. Coil battery and amplifier replaced as part of the present fault finding.

I'm now suspecting the ignition barrel and will see if the 12v I have at the coil in ignition position I is still there when cranking.

Oh the joys of RR's  405 AB exec seats Baltic and Cirrus
93 RR Classic efi

Remember it's easier to get forgiveness than permission!

Gone in order:
4.4 TDV8 SE - gone to a good home
93 Classic hard dash Plymouth Blue
03 L322 Oslo Blue
2000 Disco TD5 ES Epsom Green
98 P38 Rioja Red
89 Classic Cairngorm Brown

There have been stories of caps and rotors failing after very few miles so i would check these again.
Seems quality is very hard to buy these days,

MW Car history includes: LR Series 3, RR Classic x 4, LR 101, Discovery 1 and 2 and now FFRR.
Yes I'm a masochist....

Have you turned the engine over without the dizzy cap on? only if the rotor arm isn't turning then you wont be getting the signal to tell the coil to spark

And removing the centre lead from the dizzy and testing that to exposed metal will tell you if you at least have a working low tension ignition system and multiple sparks from the lead will confirm the high tension side..... I'm afraid that it's old school methodically working your way through the system until it works, no plugging in a fault code reader...... there is only one codethat you'll be able to get...... an I d ten t code Id10t  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

I note you have changed the distributor /rotor arm.....


Ensure the rotor and the distributor cap are genuine items, I had a rotor break down, on cranking the coil lead to earth should provide continuous sparks.

Have you sparks at the plug end? remove a plug or fit a spare to earth and see if there is a spark where it matters, as a start. If not it must be upstream

If you have the engine may be flooded, Have you purged any excess petrol?

I'll have a read through again  Regards
Royston

2008 4.2 Supercharged Autobiography
1994 Classic Vogue SE
1999 Rover BRM
1987 Rover Vitesse Twin Plenum