Hi my first post I'm hoping for some advice. I have been toying with buying a 4.4 v8 around 53 plate with between 60-75k but I'm majorly concerned about the gearbox gremlins I keep stumbling across. I am a mechanic but have never had any dealings with autos. What are the signs that the autobox is about to fail or isn't there any sign. I'd love to no what the odds are on a gearbox failing as I'm sure some go on forever ( if it's 1 box in several hundred vehicles I'd be happy to take the risk if 1 in 10 I wouldn't ) thanks for any help or advice it's much appreciated

It is a known failure but at what ratio I don't know.
I've been around auto box for over 20 years. I think the answer is to drive a few most will feel the same but the odd one feels well odd. Now it could be odd tyres worn other parts of the transmission, but I suspected the box so walked away.
I bought an 03 with78K on the clock, under the warranty have over £2000 in parts replaced don't know about the labour.
I'm sure most parts could be repaired but as they were covered it was replaced apart from the info centre which was repaired. None of them were to do with the box all electric gremlins and I suspect a parked up vehicle for several months.
Go for it you will know a bad one.
Get it flushed, I suspect that is where a lot of the problems lie in the filled for life box!

It's all the other bit's that lead to a dead gearbox...

The oil cooler lines block
The oil coolers block
The bottom of the engine rad that feeds the gearbox oil coolers block
The thermostat that works the gearbox oil coolers fail
No-one ever bothers to change the gearbox oil...

If I was buying one now I would change all the above plus all the engine hoses, fit this kit to lower the engine temp and I recon the gearbox will be fine...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/80-C-Thermostat-...xyUrZSwcNg

They don't tend to give too much notice when they do let go, sometimes a hard change etc is noticed but sometimes it's like flicking a switch...

Don't let it put you off though....  Pete

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2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

Well I've no problem with the ZF gearbox on the BMW 4.4 v8, it's actually the GM box on the TD6 that gives more issues.
It was the first auto for me too and I was similarly concerned having no dealings with autoboxes before, I bought mine at around 90k miles and it's done another 20k miles since without any issues and have no concern over it.
I did change the transmission fluid and filter soon after I bought it as I don't believe in sealed for life. As I also had a leaking radiator I changed that and the transmission oil cooler to keep it running well. In fact the engine is more likely to give issues on the 4.4 than the box (Oil leaks, Vanos, chain guides, PCV, water leaks etc.), on the TD6 it's seems to be the other way around.

I did change the torque converter but that was again simply because I had to take the box off checking for a cracked flywheel/flexplate so seemed prudent to change it given the mileage, cost was only £150 for a refurb TC.

So I wouldn't worry about it, search out RRPhils excellent posts on rebuilding the ZF box, they actually put my mind at ease that it can even be DIY rebuilt.

When buying just check it goes through all the gears smoothly with no untoward noises, check the kick down works. Try Sports mode and again that the gears operate correctly. Listen out and feel for a cattle grid like rumbling when cruising between 35-50mph, a sign that the Lock Up Clutch is worn out on the Torque Converter.
It's my understanding is that the worn LUC that kills the GM box whereas the ZF is more tolerant.
Also check that it goes into and out of Low Range (switch when in neutral), it's hardly used by most people so can give issues. The sensing potentiometer fails and as not available separately the whole actuator motor has to be replaced...£1900 from LR although they can now be refurbed for a more reasonable £400.

As always with a car of that age buy on condition not necessarily mileage, I would prefer to buy a high mileage FFRR with a refurb gearbox and history of engine maintenance/repairs than a low mileage car with no history of anything being done.

Thanks for replys/advice I'll start having a look and drive a few in coming weeks and make a decision , I really want one but being a bit of a Worrier I don't want the pleasure of owning one to out weighed by every time I drive it I'm listening for noises lol. If I do purchase one first port of call will be to change gear oil and fit that lower temp stat thanks

So a high mileage one with good history would be worth a punt ? For between 7 and 8k seems the price for reasonable mileage but 2k less with a few miles on the clock

It's all about the maintenance - they can take the miles if looked after properly.

If you can find one where the extra maintenance jobs have been done - as highlighted above - then you have a major head start, but I'd be surprised if you can find one.

Best thing you can do IMHO is find what you think is a good one - then change all the fluids and the components that Pete has listed.

All those bits will cost £600-£700 in parts and probably the same again in Labour, they are not cheap cars to own and maintain properly, it will also need other preventative maintenance if you want piece of mind, if you can do it all yourself it will be around £1000 in parts, you'd then have one that should inspire confidence.... It's one reason they are cheap to buy ... Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

George79 wrote:

So a high mileage one with good history would be worth a punt ? For between 7 and 8k seems the price for reasonable mileage but 2k less with a few miles on the clock

Brilliant thanks ever so much I'll be keeping my eye out now as have the money ready, yes I'm a mechanic well I was I teach it at college now so Im Capable of fitting the said parts it's just auto boxes that scare me, iv stripped many manual gearboxes but when something iv had no experience with ( autos) I wouldn't want to start messing. Thanks again for the help

This service by Millers Oils could be handy to find out what's going on inside a gearbox on a car you've just purchased:

http://www.millersoils.co.uk/automotive/millercare.asp

David. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 5.0 SC Autobiography in Indus Silver with Jet/Ivory Interior
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

@George

Mine's a 53 on 182,000 miles and everything is original and works fine. Been looked after all its life by Craig (Gbox oil and filter changes, previous owners and myself)

I bought it with 135,000 miles on, sight unseen - i was so sure that it was a good'un!

As Alistair and Wee Jock said, mileage is immaterial - it's care and condition that count.

This is the only part I know a little about so here goes:

The same 'sealed for life' ZF gearbox was also fitted to the D2 Audi S8, which I used to drive so I speak from experience.

It was a known weakness in those and if it failed, it was usually between 100K and 120K miles. The first signs were a clunking into gear/drive; it should be silky smooth.

Despite manufacurers' claims, it's not actually sealed for life and the oil and filters should be changed. This can be done to extend the lifespan and if it hasn't been done already, do it as it may keep the box running for a good few years.

Not all will fail but there are enough D2 owners who can vouch for the box going pop. In later years, Audi/ZF then suggested the box isn't actually sealed for life after all, and recommended changing the filters and fluid.

thanks for the advice I hope to find one in next few weeks, there is one on ebay at a currently 1 owner full LR history 62k miles 7995 im v interested so will be making contact soon thanks again

George, as others have said, it's the TD6 box that seems to give the most problems. Of course, anything can break on any car.

I would check the records, see how the car drives and have a good mechanic give it an inspection. I would think the state of the trans oil and whether the little magnet thing is full of metal particles will give you some idea about it. Also, any transmission works harder if it's used to tow. Does the car you're interested in have a tow bar?

With an 2003, your main expense won't be the purchase price or depreciation. It will be maintenance. They are GREAT cars. If you accept there will be maintenance and know a good mechanic, they are very rewarding to drive.