Contraband
'I think it comes down to training. Drivers need to understand that horses can spook and need room.
My wife would sign the petition but I wouldn't based on the 15mph.'

Agree with training , on both sides, rider as well as drivers! remember anyone can 'jump' on a horse and take it down the road as well! ( you would need your head read if a non horse person did do that )

Dont have an argument with the Mrs over this, its only a petition!!

Dolph34

Hi fella, im WD ........and will spare you from the spit roast as us old Dragons like meat!!!

No in honesty i do feel your pain and the bike as your just a mile away, but law is law and if broken you ( would of thought ) of been prosicuted. But its the 'what if' happens thats the big issue. Good on you to trailer it to practice, many would not of bothered and took the risk.

Ok as for keeping all slow moving traffic from the roads? So if no bridleways where ever ridden they would be lost from the rights of way maps and closed off, as many councils out there want nothing to do with rights of way it would be the end of them.
Many bridleways start and finish from either main roads or unclassified roads ( country single roads) like the one in the clip where a car and little trailer was asked to stop but didnt.So if we want to ride on a bridleway we have to go on the road first, no horse owner wants to put their horse in danger in the first place.
You have to remember some riders dont want to ride in competitions like eventing, show jumping, dressage, cross country, even just riding in a field will be borring for the horse and will switch off, also the horse can be a night mare to work with too as they will know its going to be borring just going round the same 4 hedges time and time again!

I have 4 bridleways I can ride on from my home ( 2 to 3 miles away ) but sadly I HAVE TO GO ON THE ROAD FIRST, I wouldnt ride my horse into town as it puts us in danger and other road users will be frustrated by me been there......even if i can so education is the key here yes, but sadly, like many will back me here, some car drivers just wont want to learn.

Just my opinion too  If it dont work.......burn it!

If the IId tool cant fix it.......burn the FF.

If the FF cant be fixed......buy a Land Cruiser!

If the LC cant be fixed..............................................BUY a horse !!

Signed....
when riding in the UK i find most drivers are aware and curtious - perhaps because it is in a local/village environment.

Belgium - does not have bridleways, we ride on the road and across private land.

One of the national pastimes, apart from drinking and driving, seems to be how fast and close you can get to a horse and rider.

I now take a wingman, aft and outboard, on a bicycle - if a driver so much as makes a cyclist so much as wobble, they are liable. It seems to work.......

I will say now, I won't be signing it. Please note, none of the below is aimed at you, or anyone personally, WD.

It is not in any way because I disagree with the sentiment - quite the opposite; we are a horsey family and know and experience the problem only too well. Living here, we have access to the whole of the Longleat forest to ride in, which is excellent, but just on the short section of country village road we must use, we do experience enough problems of our own. The reason I must disagree with the campaign is the specific objective and suggestions made regarding catching the offending persons on camera etc.

Firstly, we already have the law required - the Road Traffic Act. The RTA creates offences of dangerous and careless driving which do fully cover the situation, and are flexible in such a way that a blanket restriction would not be.

Quote:

2A Meaning of dangerous driving.

(1)For the purposes of sections 1 and 2 above a person is to be regarded as driving dangerously if (and, subject to subsection (2) below, only if)—

(a)the way he drives falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver, and

(b)it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous.

(2)A person is also to be regarded as driving dangerously for the purposes of sections 1 and 2 above if it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving the vehicle in its current state would be dangerous.

(3)In subsections (1) and (2) above “dangerous” refers to danger either of injury to any person or of serious damage to property; and in determining for the purposes of those subsections what would be expected of, or obvious to, a competent and careful driver in a particular case, regard shall be had not only to the circumstances of which he could be expected to be aware but also to any circumstances shown to have been within the knowledge of the accused.

Quote:

Careless, and inconsiderate, driving.

If a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place, he is guilty of an offence.

We currently live in a world with an increasing number of people (often cyclists, for instance) attempting to film, and unfortunately, even antagonise people into, offensive (in the literal sense of the word) actions, yet personal opinions and viewpoints always vary. Many of these videos get posted online and the high court of social media makes a conviction free from the constraints of a fair trial. The attitude of trying to catch such people and self-enforcement is somewhat abhorrent to me and the wrong course of action to improve the situation.

What is needed to reduce the problem is education. There are two types of people that cause a problem - the ignorant and the outright arseholes. The former can be tackled by educating them, not condemning them of crimes they are wholly unaware that they are committing. The latter will not change. No matter what laws are in place or what we try to do, there will always be people who are simply bad eggs or too unintelligent to comprehend. Our only fair course of action is to raise awareness, not spout "it's the law" at people.

Just my views; YMMV.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

^ I think that sums up what I was saying quite nicely. (and more eloquently). Enforce existing laws!

And having watched the video again, I would say that includes prosecuting the rider for impersonating a Police Officer (the POLITE thing on a viz jacket is nothing but a transparent attempt to make other people think they are Police) which is 100% illegal.

And as also mentioned previously, if ridden on roads then insurance should be mandatory, just as it is with motorcycles. That goes for bicycles too.

Much as I like horses, and I genuinely do, I do wonder why a rider will take a flighty and unpredictable one out on the roads. A genuine question to horsey folks. You wouldn't take a car our if it was prone to accelerating off in a random direction for no apparent reason, you'd get it fixed before driving it. So why is it OK with a horse?

Overall this needs understanding, consideration, tolerance and education on both sides or one party will ha stopped from using the roads, and that's only ever going to go one way.

Yes it does some it up!

And only a camera can help with both quotes, but not the speed of what's passing horse!

Mzplcg

The ' polite ' yellow hiviz I think has been dealt with, I think the issue was the blue and white reflective bits not the word 'polite', I could be wrong though, we all know why they did mind.

I can only answer for myself here but I have always worn a hiviz tabard since owning my mare ( and my horse when it's through the winter days) bright orange hi viz and I would never take a horse on the road without at least my hiviz coat or tabard and as for insurance.....you got to be mad to take any horse on the road with out it, maybe that needs looking into too, but I think most responsible riders will nowadays, can't answer for anybody else though.

A little story for you for the other side of the coin.

In my early riding years the horse I was having lessons on ( an irish draught cross tb at I think 15.2 hh) was a great horse to learn on and got that bond you get with them.
Now I had many a lesson and hacked this horses out on a B road and back roads with no issues, none, nothing not even a pop!
This day was different, we had done this section of road many a time before, nice high hedges on this B road and nothing to spook at....... cows in the field saw us and decided to have a chat, down comes the cows, off goes the horse....not expecting her to shoot off but no mater how hard I tried she would not come out of canter. In the end I had to point her toward the hedge, head on and on the other side of the road, dangerous yes and thankfully no cars coming the other way, to say it shook me up is a understatement.
Main thing is I did not fall off and kind of kept some control of her , 20 odd years sInce that now!

So the thing I'm trying to say really is anything could happen in the country on a country road, not just a car speeding passed can be an issue.

Never owned a young horse so can't comment on how to get the experience a horse needs for road traffic but can only guess by introducing it to traffic, maybe some one else comment.

Agree with your last comment mind  If it dont work.......burn it!

If the IId tool cant fix it.......burn the FF.

If the FF cant be fixed......buy a Land Cruiser!

If the LC cant be fixed..............................................BUY a horse !!

Quote:

A genuine question to horsey folks. You wouldn't take a car our if it was prone to accelerating off in a random direction for no apparent reason, you'd get it fixed before driving it. So why is it OK with a horse?

You have to start somewhere with horses, both physically and metaphorically. Few folk take their horse on the road as a preferrence, but in order to link up with bridleways etc. it is often necessary; not everyone can have a field right next to a bridleway. The roads in question are usually only small unclassified ones and there are very few cars, so it is not an issue 99% of the time, but it only takes one problem car.

Then there's the metaphorical side; horses will only get used to cars through exposure. It's all part of the training one gives a horse over time. Some are naturally more bomb-proof than others. Few such horses will be liable to bolt as you describe, and particular care will be taken by anyone riding such a horse, but others may still be likely to get flustered. Particularly, if a car comes from behind a horse may want to turn to see it etc. The main thing is that with just a little consideration, horses and cars can get along just fine.

With regard to compulsory insurance on the road, I have to strongly disagree. We can do without more such demands and they give insurers a captive market. Most horse owners do have insurance and often are members of the Pony Club or British Horse Society etc. and thus have public liability insurance as part of the package (it is in fact, for many, the sole reason they join). There are road safety courses offered also.

On the cycling front, what about children - do they all have to have insurance? Cycling is a simple, obligation free mode of transport and a great enjoyment for many. One can go an buy a bike, jump on, and ride it. No forms to fill in. No-one has to know who you are. No other parties involved. What's more, how would it be enforced? Would we have to have bike number plates? Police stops and identity checks? It'd be yet another step closer to the big brother nation. Imagine also the potential for fraudulent staged accidents and claims if bike riders had insurance to claim from - which might even result in serious injuries or death.

 Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

Why take a horse out.... Training, i only ride [and train] young horses, start off by leading them with another older & wiser horse, swap them over after a time and then when i think its ready - ride it solo.
Sorry to say, don't wear hi-viz and certainly nothing that says Polite [too much like Belgian Politie]

One of the problems with horses on roads is as many state "we only go on quite country lanes"!!!

These tend to have very few passing places where plenty of space can be given and as they're quiet any vehicle is a major event. On the busier roads (nowt silly but white line down the middle etc) the traffic noise can blend into one continuous "thing" and the horse quickly learns to deal with it. Also, the slightly bigger roads tend not to have such blind corners that a horse can hide around.

Again, it's all subjective and depends on horse / rider / experience / weather / off days / etc. But to look at a point above further it is rightfully said we'd never take a car on the road if it was prone to speeding off in any direction without control. But, we all drive on rubber tyres which, per year. several go "pop" and cause a vehicle to swerve without warning. Luckily, the car is a steel box and can bounce off things if needs be. The horse is just the same - at some point on some day and for some reason something will "pop" in it's head and it'll spook and like a driver has to control his blow-out the rider has to control his or her horse and needs space to do so.

People (drivers / cyclists / motorcyclists / walkers / horse riders) need to be more patient and tolerant and try putting themselves in others shoes. However, I still think, for the majority of occasions that affect me, 15mph is too slow unless it is a complete stop & switch off to save a bad situation!! Back in a Defender!!

Old thread I know, but anyone watch countryfile?
Tomorrow, Sunday 27 November they are ( or should be) discussing the issues we riders face on the roads.

The petition has gained loads of momentum since the thread started, but sadly loads of horses and riders have been seriously injured or killed due to driver incompetence aswell this year alone, so far it seems a horse or rider every week has been reported as been injured or the horse has been pts and its no fault of the rider.

So if you have a spare hour to watch the program on this subject (and sign the petition ) it would be a great help to spread the word  If it dont work.......burn it!

If the IId tool cant fix it.......burn the FF.

If the FF cant be fixed......buy a Land Cruiser!

If the LC cant be fixed..............................................BUY a horse !!

I'm all for slow and wide when passing horses, but the petition is going too far.

Only a Police Officer in uniform or an accredited Traffic Warden (note: not Civil Enforcement Officer) has a legal right to direct traffic.

Are all horse riders going to undergo compulsory training to know what signals to use and when?

I've signed the petition also.

I have seen the video on Facebook before, and several others of horse riders with helmet cameras, and the behaviour of some people is shocking, can honestly say there is no excuse.

I always slow right down when I see a horse, driving a big old van I know can frighten them anyway, so go extra slow. Only a fool would not slow down and give them room. If you are approaching a corner (not that I can say I've had it happen) just treat it like a moped and wait for the road to straighten out before carefully making it past.

On the odd occasion, i've been doing the national limit and gone round a corner to see someone riding a horse, I check my mirror and hammer on the anchors. It does no harm to me, but could to the rider if I had kept going and gone around the horse at speed, with the potential of the rider being thrown back, the horse being injured etc. etc.

Worthy cause, I'm in support of Pass slow and wide! 

I've heard the argument before about slow moving stuff being removed from the highway. It needs to be remembered that the highway was created in the very first place for the slow moving stuff!! long before mechanised moving stuff was even thought about..

I agree that the petition does seem a bit one sided and the well informed prose above adequately justifies placing the onus on all parties not just the motorist. 405 AB exec seats Baltic and Cirrus
93 RR Classic efi

Remember it's easier to get forgiveness than permission!

Gone in order:
4.4 TDV8 SE - gone to a good home
93 Classic hard dash Plymouth Blue
03 L322 Oslo Blue
2000 Disco TD5 ES Epsom Green
98 P38 Rioja Red
89 Classic Cairngorm Brown

Thanks for the support,

As a rider (and many will do this) if you see a potential hazard from the saddle or feel the horse not sure about something in its line of site, the motor drivers wont even see this, we will ask them to slow down or even stop.
I know the HC is all advice but too many drivers think they own the road not thinking the what if happens.

My girls are as bomb proof as I can train them with all kinds of traffic, will ask speeding drivers to slow down, some don't and get reported but the majority of drivers are good at passing. ( well here where I live anyhow) If it dont work.......burn it!

If the IId tool cant fix it.......burn the FF.

If the FF cant be fixed......buy a Land Cruiser!

If the LC cant be fixed..............................................BUY a horse !!