I am no petrochemist, but I vaguely remember that when distilling crude oil, diesel is produced at a much lower temperature than petrol, so it would make sense that it is cheaper to produce.

But the real reason that diesel is so good for economy is the way that it is ignited, as it relies on the heat generated by compression, and it uses a much higher compression ratio than a petrol engine. This is what makes it way more efficient. 12:1 is about the highest ratio that you will find on a petrol engine, diesel engines start at 18:1 and go as high as 30:1, maybe higher now a days. The higher the compression ratio the more of the fuel is converted into power and not heat.
Or to put it another way about 80% of the petrol burnt in an engine goes up the exhaust as heat that's one hell of a lot of hot air And matters get worse when you start to super / turbo charge a petrol engine, to stop it blowing it's self to bits you have to lower the compression ratio, this in turn compounds the poor fuel to power ratio even further.

I hate myself for saying this, but the best thing for bottom end grunt is electric Excuse me while I just go and wash my mouth out  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Electric is fine, but it's how you get the electricity is the issue. Batteries are a waste of time at the moment imho. Lithium ion manufacturing is so polluting that all it does is put the environment factor somewhere else, it's onlyndeflecting the problem.

Future is hydrogen fuel cell, without a doubt in my mind at the moment

As for petrol, Im closely considering coming back to a full fat again and th choice of a 4.2 or tdv8 is a choice I'm finding hard to resolve at the moment and the diesel emissions is not helping the choice now. V8 or else ...

It all depends on what you want it for, if you want something to Lord it over everyone else and your not doing any kind of mileage then petrol is a very good choice. If you are covering silly miles and towing, heavy things ( what idiot would do that in a ffrr ) then a diesel is the only real consideration, or, an LPG power SC and lots of big LPG tanks

Last year I covered 24,000 miles and over half was towing trailers of around 3 ton weight and the aerodynamics of a brick I dread to think what that would have cost in petrol  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

I love my petrol, but 24000 miles and the heavy trailer is what diesels were made for! Not that we got a choice around here...

I had a diesel car before (old Peug) and nearly bought a TDV8 iso of my current 5.0 SC. And I bought the SC because of turbo issues with the TDV8, nothing else.

As for electric, I am convinced that is the best way to go, much more practical than hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. The battery issue is virtually solved, combined with chargers that you can put anywhere in the world because there already is a complete electricity network.

Hydrogen does not make sense at all IMHO. Why put a lot of electrical energy into creating it to then make electricity again ??? It is harder and more difficult to store and transport than electricity AND the engine drive train is a very complicated bit of kit compared to an electric drivetrain. Why build and maintain a hydrogen based network like petrol stations now when there is already a complete electricity network there ??? Don't say the network can't handle it because that is simply not true .

With local renewable energy generation, (solar panels on your house/business/apartment block, parking lot etc. and / or a small windmill (park)) the energy generation landscape will change dramatically over the next decades. There may be a short role for hydrogen here as in using hydrogen to store the excess solar / wind energy generated during the day to use it at night but eventually battery technology will surpass that if it hasn't already done so. But that will happen overnight, it is decades that we need still.

Oil and gas are on their way out of energy generation, in their end game although that end game is still a few decades long (so I can still retire in the O&G industry where I have been working for the past 27 years) but it is an end game for sure. The combination of climate change and economic fluctuations due to O&G (and coal) is lethal to it, it is just not sustainable at all.

The future of nuclear is dire as well unless the switch to liquid salt / thorium is made but for whatever reason that does not seem to take place, so I'm convinced that industry will only play a part in the current transfer to fully renewable energy.

The unfortunate thing is that there is a lot of misinformation out there about renewable energy, climate change etc. generated by lobbyists of the O&G and coal industry and lot of others relaying on them. That muddles things up a bit but not forever, more and more the myths are being debunked.

Full electric and full renewable energy is the only way to go and it will work at some point, no doubt because there simply is no alternative until we are able to colonize "space" properly and I'm convinced that is still many more decades away . MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

I personally think that the electric + internal combustion generator, not a hybrid, look the best way to go at present, they are returning 200 mpg without any of the draw backs associated with total electric power. If you were to couple that with regenerative braking, and possibly solar top up, I think that you would have a winning combination. Provided that they can solve the spontaneous combustion battery problem , God knows a ffrr is flammable enough without any extra help

Electric power is more promising for AWD applications, in fact it's the preferred method of propulsion from the really big dumper trucks, used in open mining (200 ton +). I believe that it gives you more controllable bottom end power, which would equate in to less slip more grunt, prefect for offroad and heavy towing  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

i was behind a bus yesterday in chelmesford and when it stopped its engine switched off, when the traffic started moving you could hear an electric engine kick in and start moving the bus to about 10mph and then the petrol engine started..saves the large amount of 'start from stop' engine fumes i suppose.. ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
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miggit wrote:

I personally think that the electric + internal combustion generator, not a hybrid, look the best way to go at present, they are returning 200 mpg without any of the draw backs associated with total electric power. If you were to couple that with regenerative braking, and possibly solar top up, I think that you would have a winning combination. Provided that they can solve the spontaneous combustion battery problem , God knows a ffrr is flammable enough without any extra help

Electric power is more promising for AWD applications, in fact it's the preferred method of propulsion from the really big dumper trucks, used in open mining (200 ton +). I believe that it gives you more controllable bottom end power, which would equate in to less slip more grunt, prefect for offroad and heavy towing

miggit wrote:

I personally think that the electric + internal combustion generator, not a hybrid, look the best way to go at present, they are returning 200 mpg without any of the draw backs associated with total electric power. If you were to couple that with regenerative braking, and possibly solar top up, I think that you would have a winning combination. Provided that they can solve the spontaneous combustion battery problem , God knows a ffrr is flammable enough without any extra help

Electric power is more promising for AWD applications, in fact it's the preferred method of propulsion from the really big dumper trucks, used in open mining (200 ton +). I believe that it gives you more controllable bottom end power, which would equate in to less slip more grunt, prefect for offroad and heavy towing

I would have thought that an electric + diesel generator would be the "cleanest way", only because it's easy to get diesel engines to run vegetable oil (that's what they were invented for), and this would give you a sustainable refueling option. Plus as you are not reliant on charging points, it would act as a normal vehicle and just drive no waiting for the batteries to charge, no I forgot to plug it in.

Add the fancy harvesting the brake energy thingy and a bit of solar, and I think you've the best of all worlds  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

There's only a limited supply of used Veg oil, so you end up with Rape being planted everywhere to use for making new stuff which then reduces the amount of land for growing food. - Low net CO2 but over all not very green. (in fact it's yellow. )

Nuts, peanuts  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

miggit wrote:

Electric power is more promising for AWD applications, in fact it's the preferred method of propulsion from the really big dumper trucks, used in open mining (200 ton +). I believe that it gives you more controllable bottom end power, which would equate in to less slip more grunt, prefect for offroad and heavy towing

I do wonder why we never heard more from LR about the ERAD (Electric Rear Axle Drive) system

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/concept-...rover-erad

Low Emission engine at the front driving 2 wheels, and an electric motor at the back driving the rear wheels, giving electric propulsion, and 4WD when needed

That's only a part time system, we have progressed beyond that WW2 tech A few years back Jeep produced a prototype that had 4 electric motors one in each hub, and 4 wheel steer, if memory serves my correct it could turn with in its own length ie \-/ on each axle, plus the usual crab and 4 wheel steer, looked rather odd, but dam handy off road or at the supermarket  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!