My 09 TDV8 was low on fuel 2 days a ago with about a range of 20 miles indicated. I went and added some 'fuel' from a can by my diesel log splitter (about 5 itres) then thought nothing more of it. the next morning my wife borrowed the car and drove about 15 miles then filled it half full from a BP garage. the next part of the journey (about 40 miles) it gave her a warning message about reduced power, so she switched off and then on (like a computer) and it worked fine again until close to home when it started giving messages, such as 'limited gears' 'hdc not available' suspension lowering' then limited engine performance'. At that point it doesn't have enough power to go uphill nor exceed walking pace. Switch on and off again and its fine, but now only manages a few hundred yards between episodes. I have have drained the tank to the point it was running out then popped in another 10 litres of fuel I know is OK. reset the faults and ,,,,,,,,,, no better.
codes are P1623,P2290, P117D, p117D.
As this follows the 'refuelling' I suspect the fuel was no good so I investigated and found that the diesel splitter had been run on heating oil for the last fill and thats what had been left in the can. As there is no lubricant in heating oil will this be the cause? I'm surprised especially as it was only a few miles and the fule mix would have been about 50/50.

Any ideas ? Am I right and how broken is it?

Mmmmmm, I would start looking at alternator/battery i.e. low voltage. First of all the fuel goes through a filter so crap should be unable from reaching the engine/injectors.

Also the raft of seemingly unrelated faults is usually a sign of low voltage.

I would suggest to check the battery leads/clamps, check the battery voltage both engine off and with running engine to see if that shows any strange voltages. Should be around 12+ volts with engine off and around 14+ volts with engine on.

If the battery and alternator are OK, start looking at other cabling issues, fuses loose etc.

If you can't find anything it may be time to find a good indy to have a good look at the car. MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

if the dodgy fuel went though a filter, would not the filter be the problem.. ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
.

Hi

There was no 'crap' or solids in the fuel, and in that case the filter should remove them. I was told that it could be lack of lubrication in the fuel since it was not actually diesel, could have knackered the high pressure pump or injectors. Older landies would have been OK but the newer engines have much tighter tolerances so I have been told. what makes me dubious about this is that there was only about 5 litres of the dodgy fuel so would it have worn them out so quickly?

thanks for the suggestions. I am getting the multimeter out!!

Regards
R

Filters do not remove solds they just stop them from passing to the other side. The filter can block up with solids and severly restrict fuel flow.. I got limited gears etc on my SC the other week and had to clear it with IID Tool. I put it down to having the car sitting doing nothing for a couple of weeks and then doing a couple of short journeys which didn't give the battery chance to fully re-charge. No bother since! Previous cars:
S-Max 2007-2013 (only diesel I've had, good car but expensive when diesely bits go wrong, so what's the point?)
Galaxy 2001-2007
Mondeo Estate 1997-2001
Sierra Estate 1993-1997
Uno Turbo 1987 -1993
Fiesta 1984 - 1987
Fiat 127 1982 - 1984

I would agree with Stan first job change fuel filter make share all the old heating oil ( red deisel) is cleaned out of system .if any trace is found in tank you will have some explaining to do . if stopped for roadside check

I have just checked the voltage and with the engine running I have 13.8v across the terminals. I have checked the fuel flow at the return and it seems OK. I have drained the fuel filter and again seems OK.

any more ideas, I'm moving closer to the main dealer route...

I think you could be right on the fuel front, the codes suggest a fuel problem, P1623 is an immobiliser timeout code so probably not related, P117D is a fuel volume control valve exceeds maximum code, and rave says:

P2290 :
There are different approaches to this depending on whether or not the vehicle runs. If the vehicle does not run: remove the lift pump fuse (fuse 1E of the engine compartment junction box). Disconnect the volume control valve connector from the rear of the injection pump. Disconnect the fuel spill lines and direct into a suitable container through a length of clear pipe. Crank the engine to at least 250 rpm for a minimum of 15 seconds. The pump spill flow should be at least 160 ml/min. If the spill flow is greater than this, install a new injection pump. REFER to: Fuel Pump (303-04C, Removal and Installation). Clear the DTCs and test for normal operation. If the spill flow is less than 160 ml/min, carry out the low-pressure bleeding procedure. REFER to: Fuel System Pressure Check - 3.6L (TdV8) Diesel (310-00, General Procedures). Recheck the spill flow, if it is still less than 160 ml/min, install a new fuel pump. REFER to: Fuel Pump (303-04C, Removal and Installation). Clear the DTCs and test for normal operation.
If the vehicle does run, install a new fuel filter and run the engine at 3,000 rpm for 3 minutes. During this, monitor the fuel pressure using a data logger function. If there is an airlock in the pump, the fuel pressure will be low and unstable, but a high-speed run should clear this. If the fault does not clear, check the low-pressure system to the injection pump. Insert a length of clear pipe into the fuel line and check for a steady flow of fuel with no air bubbles. If the low-pressure system checks out, disconnect the fuel injector electrical connectors and check connections. Direct the lines into a suitable container and crank the engine. Compare the flow from the injectors and if there is one or more with low flow, install a new injector to that cylinder. REFER to: (303-04C)
Fuel Injectors LH (Removal and Installation),
Fuel Injectors RH (Removal and Installation).
Clear the DTCs and test for normal operation. If the fault does not clear, install a new injection pump. REFER to: Fuel Pump (303-04C, Removal and Installation). Clear the DTCs and test for normal operation.

so these 2 seem to be related to the poor running. I think on the basis of the above a new fuel filter seems the best way to go as a starter for 10 part of the low pressure system and if blocked could cause inadequate flow to the injector pump. But if you have gotten debris into the in tank fuel pumps then this could be causing a low fuel flow to the injector pump again causing poor running.

so sounds fuel related, IMHO. There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
KIA E-Niro 4+
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

I would still change the fuel filter first & try a couple of bottles of fuel system cleaner in tank or pour one direct into new fuel filter before you fit it they way it goes straight to fuel injectors as you crank engine over . Anything is worth a try before heading to main dealer ££££££

this is excellent help thanks so much for trying to explain. I will let you know..

Bad news now...

Filter was a bit mucky so it was changed, however the result was the same. I have now taken it to the main dealer and the diagnosis a knackered high pressure pump!!!! I was told the price and naturally assume it is made out of Myrrh and rhino horn.... BAD day..

Hi,

Just thought I would clear up a couple of points for you.

Your vehicle is designed to run on Diesel Fuel called ISO EN590. You will see it on the pump when you fill up.

The spec for this fuel has a maximum recommended water content of 200PPM and a cleanliness code of ISO 18/16/13. It has a bio content of 7% which is rape seed oil, palm oil or dead fish. this gives it lubricity.

the cleanliness code refers to maximum amount of dirt allowable within the fuel, measured at 4, 6 and 14 microns per millilitre.
If you consider the human eye can only see around 30 to 40 micron then you can imagine we are talking about dirt you cannot see.

The fuel pump and in particular the injectors require the fuel to be cleaner than this. The fuel filters are specified by the fuel system provider. Fuel filters are rated at around 6 to 10 micron on most high pressure engines. They are not absolute, they reduce the dirt passing through but don't stop all of it. SO if you put dirty fuel in a vehicle then some dirt will pass through the filter and damage your fuel system components. Even if the filter is brand new.

My guess is a can in the garage is contaminated even if you put pump fuel in it.

SO I guess you can of heating oil did the damage.

In simple terms old diesels would run on anything. But all the new high pressure engines are hugely exposed to fuel quality issues and as new engines come along its only going to get worse. Bosch make a fuel system already for a family saloon that can do over 100 mpg but its not in production yet because it requires cleaner fuel that the refineries can offer today at the pumps. Secondary filtration is becoming a massive market, both on vehicles and at the dispenser.

Last pointer, throwing fuel cleaning additives straight into the fuel filter is likely to write off all injectors as its too concentrated. I would keep away from after market additives if you have a new diesel. All of them came from the marine markets originally to treat bacteria relating to sea water environments. Most are high in surfactants that will dissolve any water into the fuel in small droplets sizes. These droplets burn too hot at the injector nozzle and melt the injectors or if really unlucky they will detonate the engine. I have seen holes in pistons and cylinder walls.


Hope this is helpful to explain how a dirty can will knacker up a fuel system very quickly.

interesting, i gather you are knowledgeable about this kind of thing.. ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
.

Given the location of Warwickshire i wonder if Mr (or Ms) Blademaster works for JLR.

I don't work for JLR........although I can nearly see the place!

I have done a bit with diesel since the introduction of EN590 once I learned it was unstable and has a storage life or 6 to 12 months.