Cycle lanes are merely a 'box ticking' exercise for local authorities in their quest to to say "We invested in cycling infrastructure", nothing more and nothing less (not sure but I would hazard a guess that local authorities are given government grants for cycling infrastructures and they spend half the grant on a half arsed job and squander the rest on champagne breakfasts). There are very few (if any) that actually comply with the regulations that have been laid down by the government.

Not only are they poorly designed with no thought of the cyclist in mind but they are seldom if ever maintained and most times unrideable on road bikes. They are seldom swept, and where does the winter salt and grit go when the rains wash it off the road, yes into the side where the cycle lanes are. The flint soon shreds bike tyres, causes loss of grip on the tarmac surface and increases braking distances as the tyre skids on the gravel. Vegetation is never cut back reducing the already illegal widths and ensuring anyone stupid enough to cycle will be going through brambles and nettles where cuts and stings are inevitable. The tarmac surface is usually painted with cheap red paint that has been put on with a trowel and over the last 10 year with no maintenance it has become a surface akin to the moons, full of potholes, cracks, uneven joints, poorly patched repairs and worst of all drain covers which if not sunk 4 inches below the surface are highly polishes by car tyres to the point that a bike will not stay upright if it comes into contact with it...wet or dry


Then there's the disappearing cycle lanes at junctions, roundabouts, and pinch points which is where they are of most use and should be. Add to that the pedestrians, mum & dad taking the kids out for a wee cycle down the cycle path toddling along 3 or 4 abreast at 2 or 3mph, a recipe for disaster.

I'll stick to cycling on the poorly maintained roads as the law has required me to do since 1835, right next to the cycle lane the local authority wasted good money installing for their box ticking exercise You don't like it...tough. Lobby your MP to push for a change in the law.

^ +1  2011 (MY12) 4.4 TDV8 Vogue
2016 Golf GTI PP

Gone
Audi A4
VW Passat
VW Corrado G60
VW Golf GTI
BMW E30
Mini
Vauxhall Chvette

Wow, where to start.......

mzplcg wrote:

I seriously doubt that CEEGEE. Stan's a well balanced man of the world as are most of us. To be frank there's way too much bleating from cyclists about drivers not understanding cyclists' needs or rights. The trouble comes from the fact that very few cyclists seem to ever mention the responsibilities which go with those rights.

mzplcg wrote:

As for too many drivers killing cyclists, well as has been said numerous times before, it's more about way too many cyclists putting themselves in a position where they're likely to get injured or killed, like the gazillions of the local clubs who ride round our local roads in packs of 50, 4 or 5 abreast and with zero regard for anyone else. That's exactly how the dopey ran into the back of my wife's car causing a grand's worth of damage which he had no insurance to cover. Fortunately debt recovery agencies can be a good thing sometimes

It seems to me that some people think that just by "riding down the road" cyclists are apparently putting themselves in a position where they are likely to be killed or injured, and usually because drivers don't pass safely or pay proper attention to the very fact that a cyclist is nearby. Riding 4 abreast is of course against the law, but cyclists are perfectly within their rights (and the law) to cycle 2 abreast - indeed many do this to make themselves more visible to motorists and make sure that a motorist only passes when the space is really there to do it safely, giving them the same room as they would if they were passing a car, as per the Highway Code.

I do feel that any responsible cyclist should have third party insurance (something which is part of British Cycling Membership), but the laws of physics say that the brakes on a bike are no match for the highly sophisticated braking system on a car, and the fact that a cyclist ran into the back of your wife's car, does not necessarily make them a "dopey ".

mzplcg wrote:

More to the point, I used to drive HGVs for a living. Some years ago a colleague of mine was unfortunate enough to kill a cyclist through no fault of his own and it ruined his life. He never drove again, ended up bankrupt and ultimately took his own life. Rarely does the devastation caused by this kind of thing get highlighted. So if I sound unsympathetic towards cyclists, especially the large moron element of them, well it's because I am 100% unsympathetic. If the cyclists are looking for sympathy for the damage caused by their own lack of sense, well I guess they'll find sympathy in the dictionary somewhere between s.h1.t and syphilis.

mzplcg wrote:

The laws of the land don't trump the laws of physics. Motor vehicles travel faster than cycles and since this isn't going to change anytime soon it would make sense to keep self preservation uppermost on the list of priorities, something a huge majority of cyclists seem incapable of doing.

The laws of physics do ultimately determine the outcome of any contact between a car and a cyclist, but thankfully "the laws of the land" are increasingly being used in these cases.

Of all my cycling friends, I can't think of a single one who doesn't have their self preservation very much front of mind every time they go out - we have to if we want to avoid being another statistic.

I really hope with the huge growth in participation in cycling and an evolving "cycling culture" that government, drivers, councils and cyclists can work together to make cycling safer and more enjoyable.

Okay, I have said all I am going to say, and that is me finished with this thread - I am going out on my bike

Probably as well CEEGEE. It's not often I disagree with you but we are poles apart here. I think we can agree on that at least

Wow this thread is entertaining, nearly as good as my FB thread about one of my ducks (sitting on 12 eggs) killed by a fox. and now 10 others have been killed off by said ........heated...just a tad

Now when your sporting your lycra gear, dont ride 2 abreast, or fix your puncture on a blind bend on a country road just wided enough for 2 cars to pass slowly and most of all ring your bell when your about to pass a horse from the behind or say hi and not just ride passed as if the world is about to swallow you up!!

Yes these have happened and all seem to be holiday makes too  If it dont work.......burn it!

If the IId tool cant fix it.......burn the FF.

If the FF cant be fixed......buy a Land Cruiser!

If the LC cant be fixed..............................................BUY a horse !!

47p2 wrote:

Emperor Mong wrote:

However, the cyclists should use the bloody cycle path. It is there for their safety and to prevent this type of event.

That's a typical vehicle driver's perception of cycling lanes, however the reality of riding a bike on these designated lanes is far from ideal and cycling on the road beside motorised vehicles is a safer option.

47p2 wrote:

Add to that the pedestrians, mum & dad taking the kids out for a wee cycle down the cycle path toddling along 3 or 4 abreast at 2 or 3mph, a recipe for disaster.

47p2 wrote:

I'll stick to cycling on the poorly maintained roads as the law has required me to do since 1835, right next to the cycle lane the local authority wasted good money installing for their box ticking exercise You don't like it...tough. Lobby your MP to push for a change in the law.

Luckily the Netherlands don't have the ambulance chasing litigation malarky (yet?) and it is still illegal to do that sort of stuff (riding into someone on purpose) and all that. Besides if you keep a wide space around the cyclist it is quite hard to ride into the car without the whole world (and your now mandatory dash cam) seeing it . I don't think that will be a big issue.

As for cyclist behaviour, that is appalling worldwide (and yes I didn't realize how bad I rode until I started driving a car ;( ). But that is what I mean, that needs to be policed really hard, stiff fines and all that as it works both ways of course.

And of course cycle path maintenance is vital. I don't have a lot of good things to say about the Netherlands (that is why I hated living there and never want to live there again ) but the Dutchies do have their priorities right when it comes to cycling path maintenance. It may not be absolutely perfect but you can see they try and generally do a very good job.

As usual the government and local authorities need to do their job and do it well and not this box ticking approach. All they need is to have a few damage claim cases against them for bad maintenance and they usually step up their work but that is hard. I just wish that people did their job properly, can't stand it when people don't. If you don't want to do a good job, remove yourself from the gene pool please  MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

 MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

^^ very appropriate, this is a "debate" that will never end.  Got - 2017 SDV8 Autobiography in Loire Blue
Had- 2008 TDV8 Vogue SE in Java black
Had - 2007 S/C in Stornoway Grey

Must be a Disco driver thing

Click

/\

I appreciate that I said I'd finished with this thread, but just to say, we've been there and done that one .....

http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic32371.html

Never saw the other thread CEEGEE as it was posted in 'Photos Video and Media' a place I seldom venture