In September 2014, EURO6 engine requirements come into force. None of the current engines meet these standards, except the Hybrid AFAIK. This means that for 15MY there has to be major changes to the engine lineup. Additionally if we look at the lifespan of the V8 Diesel engines to date, the 4.4TDV8 will be due a change by the summer. The 3.6TDV8 was in production from 07MY-10MY (4 years). The 4.4TDV8 has been in production from 11MY and will be 4 years by September 2014, where it can no longer be in production without significant changes.

Has anybody heard anything?

Some sort of AdBlue injection system, as per everyone else.

Are you sure the 5.0 s/c doesn't meet the standards? If it doesn't that means a change across the entire JLR range this year which seems unlikely especially as the Ftype has just been launched with this engine.

It's a problem for the diesels.

To be competitive they really need to push the output of the V8 diesel. Porsche/Audi/BMW are all in the 380bhp league. Given the current V8 makes it's 335 at only 3500rpm and has parallel turbocharging I'd have thought there's plenty of room to bump that.

Just wish they'd push the boat out a bit and try and match the BHP per litre of the BMW engine. That would then be a 550bhp engine which would really be something else. Can't see why it wouldn't be possible given the iron block.

Suspect it's far more to do with economy and emissions than just turning the boost up and fitting a gearbox man enough. Germans clearly ahead in this respect.

I don't think 380bhp would require much, 550bhp clearly would. Drive ability would be the big issue, getting boost across the rev range.

Yes JLR/Ford always seem to be a step behind BMW - but then everyone is a step behind BMW in engines.

bhp isn't the key, it's the torque

Low-down torque is what something heavy like a Range Rover needs for relaxed progress - the Cayenne S Diesel has 100 lb/ft more than the SDV8.

Diesels will always produce a lot of torque, and actually that can be the problem. If you try and get power just with high boost you get a big slug of torque that starts late and dies early which isn't very driveable - that is the nature of turbochargers because they're aerodynamic devices rather than positive displacement. You also get problems with too much compression because you can't lower the geometric compression ratio or the engine won't start.

What BMW has done is try and get a flat as possible torque curve across the rev range, hence their 3 litre engine has two quite large turbos running in parallel at higher revs, and a smaller single turbo for lower revs.

Pretty much every diesel has a pegged torque line rather than a torque curve nowadays.

The BMW tri-turbo in the 50d cars is just a further development of the previous twin sequential/parallel system (like the Honeywell one in the 4.4 TDV8) - one small turbo, one larger turbo, then another small one joins in at higher revs. Can't see three turbos being packaged for V-engines, and I suspect one reason BMW do it is so they can keep using bits from the same engine family rather than just sticking in a bigger-displacement engine to start with.

Yes, they peg the torque curve because otherwise you'd get a huge hump.

The BMW system doesn't work that way, but yes it allows them to make one basic engine with outputs from 250bhp to 380bhp - and allowed them to ditch their V8 years ago.

Anyway, the V6 in the XF seems to easily manage 90bhp per litre and has done since 2009. It's architecturally very similar to the V8 so I don't think there much in the way of a 400bhp V8, and I don't think it'd be short of torque.

Not sure where you're going with this Tommel. Maybe I'm misinterpreting but you seem keen on an argument, in which case I'll leave you to it.

Certainly not arguing, but the BMW does work like that - it's a Borg Warner system called Regulated Three-Stage Turbocharging. Each turbo comes into play successively as the engine speed increases - first a small high-pressure VNT one, then a larger lower-pressure non-VNT one and then the other small high-pressure VNT turbo joins in. There's a BMW video of how it works somewhere.

Torque is pegged for various reasons - keeping the turbo spinning where it's most efficient, driving characteristics, transmission capability (also torque-limiting in lower gears), marketing etc.

Anyway, bring on a 450 bhp/800 lb/ft TDV8 in the Range Rover.

From what I understand from a reliable source, the T/SDV8 will go soon, no direct replacement as such.

Petrol engines will go to s/c V6 derived powertrains - V8s will still be offered to markets that can tolerate them, but certain tax liabilities in 'emerging megawealthy' markets makes blown petrols more digestable.

It is not a stretch to see SDV6 development/evolution to be comparable to 'current' SDV8 in terms of bare statistics, but the review of the hybrid Silk Trail gave big clues on how things may well be shifting powertrain wise ..... alot of instant punch from eleccy motors for low speed high torque manouvres .... see here
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/ra...expedition

BMW are well down the track in both blown petrol and diesel and are working closely with Toyota on hybrid powertrains, engine wise JLR are often lagging behind the Germans in this respect - however, BMW even spared LR from swirl flaps, some what of a mercy given the failure rate of them.

The days of NA, are numbered ........

It does seem plausible that the 4.4 may bite the dust in favour of a developed V6 diesel and V6 diesel hybrid in order to meet Euro 6.