Hi

Looking for ideas please.

My FBH not working (2006 TD6) - does not activate with remote (does have a battery).

Checked with IID tool and has error code 0002 glow plug sensor short to ground.

Reset code and tried next morning - still did not start- same error code.

Have done a bit of reading and sounds like it could be something simple or could be ECU.

Anyone got any ideas or experience with trying to work through a process of elimination?

Would it be worth just trying to get a reconditioned unit and if so anyone got any idea where from?

Is the Rover 75 unit exactly the same as ours? 

just wondering if its cold enough to start up.. ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
.

Should be cold enough as its below 14'c it will fire up or something like that in the temp range. Also should fire up anyway when the engine is cold and outside airtemp is low like now to help heat the block and cabin.. guesing this will lead to a cold cabin for a few miles until enough heat is in the block... FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
Mantec Sump Guard, Rigid Load liner, MY10 BT upgrade.

More info in case i means anthing to someone...

When i press the remote - i can hear ?fan starting up LHS of car runs for 2 mins then cuts out. Can't smell or see any exhaust fumes. If i press off then on on the remote same happens.

Fault codes;

ATC (heat/cool) - code 41 - park heater message disturbance

FBH - code 002 - glow plug flame detector ground to earth

Not sure if this means it is electrical problem, or glow plug problem?

Anyone know if there is anyine in Scotland who will try to repair the webasto heaters?? 

Hi
I had the same issues your having with mine last year,

It could be two things
1 faulty glow plug
2 ecu has gone ( like mine very common)

First thing to try is can you hear the fuel pump clicking under the spare wheel area
Starts slow 1 click every 1to1.5 secs ??? This should happen around 30secs after starting the FBH

let me know how you get on RANGE ROVER 04 TD6
RANGE ROVER ULTIMATE EDITION 2012
UPGRADE.
MK 4 SATNAV
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jrautoelectrics/

Aurrian wrote:

Anyone know if there is anyine in Scotland who will try to repair the webasto heaters??

Try Strathearn Engineering, near Auchterarder.

They have an Autologic system, and can force the FBH to run

Hi again

Quote:

First thing to try is can you hear the fuel pump clicking under the spare wheel area
Starts slow 1 click every 1to1.5 secs ??? This should happen around 30secs after starting the FBH

Quote:

Try Strathearn Engineering, near Auchterarder.

They have an Autologic system, and can force the FBH to run

Thanks Mikey. Might give that a go - although it's a bit out of my way and difficult with work.

Found a place on ebay (CAV automotive who do a full refurb post and return for £315. Not sure if that includes the ECU though - I'll have to ask them. 

Ok so it's not getting that far in the sequence

Sounds like ecu , but its worth taking the FBH out and cleaning the glow plug as it does get caked up with deposits

It's a little tight getting it out but not to bad, remove wheel arch liner then water pipes from FBH ( don't worry about the amount of water as it a closed system when engine is off.

Once out split it in half if I remember its about 6 torx screws, you can check the resistance of the glow plug to prove its ok with an ohm meter/ multi meter ill fine the exact resistance it should be and post later

Not sure that £315 includes a new ecu but ask them if it does send it off ASAP because the parts for these are expensive
I paid 175 for the glow plug and burner parts. RANGE ROVER 04 TD6
RANGE ROVER ULTIMATE EDITION 2012
UPGRADE.
MK 4 SATNAV
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jrautoelectrics/

Thanks for that advice.

I'm a bit wary of removing the FBH

I have printed the instructions from RAVE, but bit concerned about detaching then re-attaching the fuel line and coolant.

Is it an easy job? Think i might be best to get my mechanic to do it.... 

JR's info is spot on.

The ignition sequence for the FBH is (exactly the same as an oil furnace, btw):

- glow plug pre-heat ~30sec. > fuel pump on ~5sec > combustion air fan on > flame sensor must detect a flame w/in ~5-10 sec or it automatically shuts down.


These times are very approximate and stem from when I used to work on these things over 15 years ago. I'm sure there is a service manual for the FBH floating around the net somewhere. There will be an accurate time line printed in that.

You can hear each of these steps (except for the glow plug heating, obviously :-p ): about 30 secs after the FBH is told to start the fuel pump can be heard ticking quietly (rear seat), and then the combustion air blower begins to whir (behind the RF wheel). If the FBH ignites, the whir will grow to a small jet-engine like sound.

The FBH is a very simple device and really does function just like a small oil furnace only that the fuel is not injected but rather metered exactly on to a membrane. The combustion air fan (or blower) also has to blow an exact volume of air through the membrane so that the mixture is correct. The glow plug ignites the mixture and the flame sensor (a simple photo cell) must report the presence of a flame w/in a certain time or the FBH shuts down as a precautionary measure before the fuel pump fills the FBH with unburnt fuel. Both the fuel pump and the combustion air fan are designed to meter the fuel / air exactly when the receive 12V and are otherwise more or less 'sealed units'. If they do not function properly, they must be replaced.

The most likely culprits in a failed ignition sequence are (from most to least likely):

- bad glow plug
- bad flame sensor (in this case you'd hear the FBH ignite as described above but it would then suddenly shut down)
- bad fuel pump (no fuel/too little fuel)
- bad combustion air fan (no air/too little air)

As my experience is based on working on FBH's in general and I have no experience working on exactly the FBH's in our RR's, I can not tell you how sensitive the ECU's are and how far up the likelihood ladder they should be placed. I can tell you that based on my experiences on working with auto electrics/electronics, ECU's are replaced far more often than necessary by technicians inexperienced on that particular vehicle system.

As the IIDTool is giving you a flame sensor fault, listen to the ignition sequence. If you can hear the whir grow to a (very small ) roar after a couple of seconds and the FBH then still shuts down, this will be your prob. A new flame detector should not cost more than GBP20-25 max. The only other alternatives at that point would be the ECU or an even more rare wiring prob (short to ground in the flame detector wiring).

Please let us know what happens. 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

Hi Steve

Thanks for that.

I can only hear the fans runnign - don't hear the fuel pump (at the rear seat? - inside or outside the car? left or right?)

Don't hear any increase in note of fans either.

There is a bloke on ebay from Finland who offers an ECU repair for £90 - might be a relatively cheap option to try if there's nothing obvious wrong with the wiring etc. - does sound like it's going to be process of elimination!!

Think i'll have to wait and work through some possibilities with the mechanic

Thanks for the helpful information and i will let you know the outcome.  

Thanks steve

I spent every night for a week trying to find my problem so my FBH was in and out a few times

The fuel line has no pressure so don't worry about emptying your tank

There is a 2" flexible tube on the fuel line as it enters the FBH unclip the small crimp and pull the fuel line out

Two jubilee clips on the water pipes and unbolt the exhaust and your ready to remove the FBH

It's that easy...

Test the fuel pump first, get some cable and a spare battery / battery charger and touch the terminals on the pump found at the rear of the spare wheel bay under the car.

The pump clicks once when you power it up... It doesn't buzz like normal pumps RANGE ROVER 04 TD6
RANGE ROVER ULTIMATE EDITION 2012
UPGRADE.
MK 4 SATNAV
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jrautoelectrics/

Cool

I'm up for giving this a go then.

First i'll listen again in boot for fuel pump starting with FBH remote.

I'll try to get the FBH out at the weekend (if it stops raining).

Then i'll have the battery out anyway - so i'll try manually starting the fuel pump? Presume it'll click if working (and see fuel at the webasto side of the fuel line?)

Then i'll check resistance of the glow plug?

(I've no idea how to do this - but i do have an ammeter and the ebay ECU guy says resistance should be less than 1 ohm)

Then i'll try giving it all a clean according to these instructions;

http://xdrivers.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5001.0

Then i'll try to put it all back together again and see if it works (fingers crossed)

If the glow plug resistance is wrong = i need a new glow plug?

If not, and the fuel pump seemed to be ok, I might send the ECU to this guy;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...TQ:GB:1123


I presume i can drive about safely with the FBH in but the ECU out?

I have read that i can take the whole FBH out and drive about if i connect the coolant pipes and plug the fuel line????


Does that all sound reasonable?

Will i need spare "fuel line clips" or anything else apart from the RAVE documents, some wire, a socket set, and blind optimism??? 

The FBH fuel pump is best heard under the car as this is where it's mounted

To make the removal quicker it's best to jack the car up remove the wheel and arch liner.

Also the clip on the fuel line are little to remove and refit so I bought a small jubilee pipe clip

So much easier.

This guy who repairs the ECU's does he know its the canbus version not a standard FBH

As there is more than 1 type of theses FBH RANGE ROVER 04 TD6
RANGE ROVER ULTIMATE EDITION 2012
UPGRADE.
MK 4 SATNAV
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jrautoelectrics/

Hi Guys,
As JR says, the fuel pump clicks once if it gets 12v. Each click or pulse is supposed to deliver a predetermined amount of fuel. The fuel pump itself is the same for both diesel and petrol - the ECU is switched between petrol or diesel and the pulses are modulated accordingly to provide a suitable fuel mixture. Older Webasto FBH could be converted from petrol to diesel by swapping the ECU and the membrane.

It would be interesting to find out if the fuel pump not working is a common occurrence: maybe the pump driver circuit in the ECU is fragile and this is the FBH ECU problem...

Also interesting is the fault descriptor '002 - glow plug flame detector ground to earth'. Theoretically this should then read '002 - glow plug flame detector no flame detected / continuous ground'.
I will check. 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)