Right, I don't do it. I can't help but think it's like sitting with the clutch at the biting point - I don't do that either. But am I wrong not to do it? I've never actually stripped an autobox to find out what makes it tick - to be honest I've never cared how they work - but I'm interested now. So, is it damaging? I've an early TD6 so I'm well aware the 'box needs all the help it can get which is why I'll be doing a fluid flush and change as soon as I've got a suitable pump for refilling the sodding thing! 2003 Vogue TD6/1992 Classic 300TDi/2x 1991 Golf GTI/1966 Volkswagen Kombi/2x 1968 Volkswagen Kombi/Probably something I've forgotten...

This is one of my pet hates - people that have no mechanical sympathy - I don't do it.........can't see why you would want the car pushing against the brakes, can't do the autobox, driveline or the brakes any good.

You don't sit on your settee whilst watching TV, pushing down on the cushions as hard as you can - do you ?

Without mentioning the vibration that starts on the diesels........though that is worse since I had the driveshaft diff recall thing done........

If you have any braking issues, you are going to shoot forward..........

I do tend to sit with my foot on the brake though, and not generally the handbrake, which I admit must be a pain for cars behind at traffic lights. 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

I keep mine in D and use the electronic handbrake. So much nicer when things are all done for you  
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....of course in extreme cases, after a period of hard braking down a slip road for eg, I wouldn't sit with my foot on the brakes in case the disks warp.

I know its unlikely, but I'd kick myself if they did.

The disks need to cool down at an even rate, which doesn't happen if you have the pads pressed against them........

I never use P when actually driving. Only when parked - ie car locked up and in garage etc.

Dare say some disagree.........? 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

I've started putting mine into N when stopped at traffic lights etc. I do notice a change in engine note, so I assume something's under load when in D and stopped with the brakes on............. Got - 2017 SDV8 Autobiography in Loire Blue
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Had - 2007 S/C in Stornoway Grey

Got out of the habit of sitting on the brakes in D, or flinging it into P. Now go through a routine of brake, neutral, handbrake, off footbrake, when ever I come to a halt.

Advanced driving / MIDAS Driver training would have you put on your handbrake when ever you are stopped. .
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Previous: L322 Range Rover TDV8 3.6 2008; L322 Range Rover TD6 3.0 2002; P38A Range Rover V8 1999

At a traffic light for instance? I'd def leave it in D - you'll prob do more damage by wearing the shift linkage. If you are stationary for longer periods (train crossings or waiting for your kid to come out from piano lessons) I'd def shift to P. If not for wear reasons then for safety reasons. If you pay less attention and reduce brake pressure (or if the EPB malfunctions or is accidentally released), you'll be running over begonias, pets and small children in no time. Wear on the brakes will be absolutely negligible.

misteralz wrote:

I've never actually stripped an autobox to find out what makes it tick - to be honest I've never cared how they work - but I'm interested now.

An auto trans has a torque converter. At idle, you are only stirring a little ATF which creates a very small amount of heat. Not to be compared to a manual transmission. Once you leave idle, hydraulic pressure forces the impeller and turbine to rotate at similar speeds and you start moving.
 
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Still not convinced.

As an auto creeps at idle, without the brakes applied, sitting in a driven gear, holding the car on the brakes is the same as driving with both the accelerator and brake pedals pressed.....

..........well not exactly, but you get what I mean.............?

As mentioned, when its knocked into N, the load on the engine changes.....

Perhaps I'm missing something ?

We need a Poll....P, D or N............ 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Steve, was just about to mention the torque converter, you can't wear oil out sitting idle in D .....

The idle revs are enough to make the oil in the torque converter move the car forward slowly and this is why you need to hold on brakes.

There is zero mechanical wear involved using D at short stops as I always do unless driving a TD6 with 20" wheels and want to avoid torsional vibration..

Last edited by Gazellio @ Prestige Cars on 12th Jul 2012 4:12pm. Edited 1 time in total

I thought N was the same as P, but without the parking pawl lock thing engaged ?

Not an expert............

Edited for P / D typo.........cheers Gazellio 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Last edited by mjdronfield on 12th Jul 2012 4:42pm. Edited 2 times in total

How can Neutral (N) and Drive (D) be the same thing?

I generally have a rule that if it looks like I'll be sitting still for about 15 seconds or more, then I shift to N.

A habit of mine is when I often pull up short to the car in front and gently creep forward.

I never use P when in traffic.

I also don't like causing unnecessary wear on the transmission and have often wondered the same question. Si. <This is my name.

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Stop neutral handbrake it's just the habit i'm used to and much easier with an electric handbrake . Mind you I wouldn't be surprised if the new eight speed "box" decoupled drive when stationary and the brakes are applied . 2008 MY Supercharged
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I always put it in N as recommended in the handbook.

I think that the point being made is that putting in N with handbrake as per handbook is a safety issue to avoid crawling rather than a mechanical wear issue