Some interesting thoughts there Gentlemen, most of which seem to reflect where I am getting to in my own thought process. Basically there are 3 problems.
1. Football. Far from being a beautiful game, the money is despoiling many facets of modern life. Also include things like Celebrity / Reality TV etc, anything which brings a wholly disproportionate income for very little input.
2. Lower social standards in modern society, driven it seems by jealousy and envy, with an underlying feeling that life owes everyone the same privileges regardless of their input into society. This is a whole other discussion BTW.
3. A basic shift in attitude from one of being happy for those who choose to make themselves successful to one of derision for daring to try and make something better for oneself.

So, No.1 I don't care about. If people are daft enough to buy the season tickets then how the club managers choose to spend the income is a moot point. It's a business at the end of the day.

No.2 I do care about. Apparently it's OK to be a scumbag in today's society, to the point where you get handouts for being a lazy and no encouragement to hold up your own end of the bargain by getting a job. The authorities aren't remotely interested if these 'people' go round damaging other people's property and so it all becomes the norm. Ever decreasing circles.

No.3 is the one I was alluding to in the OP. I remember the days when doing well was something which was applauded by society as a whole. Nowadays I daren't take the FFRR to client site because (according to most of my colleagues anyway) it looks ostentatious and pretentious. When the hell did that change then? I must have missed it.

Maybe that's why all Merc C180's come in silver, so none of them stand out in the works car park. Or BMW 320D, or any other bland eurobox you care to choose.

I just cannot understand why it's better to give the impression of mediocrity or failure than it is to set an example of success and what hard and smart work can bring. Do I care? Personally no, I couldn't give a toss what other people think, but the sad facts are that I have to care at work, well I do if I want to avoid being overlooked for all the decent assignments, stuff which I love doing BTW.

It's the British disease, jealousy. I much prefer the Yank attitude in that respect.

Still, I do get a nice warm feeling when I overtake a Prius plus I have the advantage that environmental protestors don't damage the paint too much if you have the suspension on the off road setting when you drive over them.  2021 3.0 P400 Vogue - coming!
2012 4.4 TDV8 Westminster - going!
2007 3.6 TDV8 Vogue - gone!
2003 V8 HSE (LPG) - gone!
2018 F-Pace 25t Portfolio
1974 LR Series III Lightweight FFR
2014 BMW 640i Gran Coupe

M44K TS wrote:

I had a rather heated discussion with one of my customers relatives one day, he was questioning some of our rates we charge for work, (alarms, cctv, electrical etc) As I'd explained them, he then pipes up with, well, what do you drive then, I bet it's something flash with the money you charge for work? At the time, I had just bought the Merc and the RR was due to be collected by the new owner in a couple of days. Without hesitation, "oh, well you must be charging way too much if you can afford gas guzzling show off cars like that"

Had various porsches and when I went to see prospective landlords (we are letting agents) I would from time to time get the same whinge - charging too much. Its only when I replied that we dont make any money unless we let their property and they start making money did they understand a bit. It is a double edge sword - Im a car enthusiast love drivin all sorts of cars G4 defender got the best comments from clients, porsche turbo the worst, wifes D3 no comment, current BMW convertable no comment - If I had a FFRR then im sure it would be in the same legue as the turbo comments.

I now try to park out of sight and walk to the house get no issues then.

Never had any cars keyed had someone shout ' ' in the porsche - my reply 'rich ' thank you didnt make them smile.

0cj0 wrote:

I think you've got that spot on, apparently Aston Martins are the least likely super car to be keyed as people associate them with James Bond which they like....?

Doesn't this just sum up completely the type of uneducated fool we are dealing with? Because they see JB driving one, they don't mind anyone else driving one. So, in the next James Bond movie he will be seen in a Range Rover - will that help? I doubt it.

The Royal Family (supposedly loved my billions, especially if there is a wedding or Jubilee and a free day off work to be had) all drive around in Range Rovers and Land Rovers. Does it help? I doubt it.

Its the same with Shooting and Hunting. 'These people' see some propaganda fueled BBC tree hugging programme that tells one side of a story and make up their mind they hate anyone who goes shooting etc. And if you happen to be driving a Range Rover too - then God help you!

At the end of the day it all boils down to one thing. Jealousy. Anyone in a fancy car is branded by these neanderthals as "W***ers". They don't appreciate that we work hard and long for our money, half of which is stolen by the taxman, so actually we work doubly hard, in order to buy something we like.

They on the other hand sit waiting for benefits and handouts that WE have payed for, doing sod all, making ten babies, have 4 dogs, Sky multiroom, a Plasma TV in every room and go to the pub every night, live off expensive junk food and gamble away anything that's left. And somehow, WE are the Wa**ers!

Makes my blood boil, it really does.

Do I give a toss about what people think about Range Rovers and their owners? No. I don't socialise with the types of people that have this vitriol so they can have their opinions.... Discovery 4 HSE
1998 110 TUM HS FFR Hard Top XD WOLF
1982 Series 3 Hard Top

*Gone:L462 D5 HSE LUX, L663 Defender 110 HSE, Discovery 3 HSE, 2014MY Range Rover Sport 5.0 Supercharged AB Dynamic; L405 Exec Vogue SE 4.4, 5.0 Supercharged Autobiography, Defender TDCi XS CSW, Defender TD5 HT, Vogue SE TDV8, Vogue TD6, RRSport SC 4.2V8, Classic 3.9 Vogue Auto, Land Rover Series 3 SWB

RRUK wrote:

Do I give a toss about what people think about Range Rovers and their owners? No. I don't socialise with the types of people that have this vitriol so they can have their opinions....

That's the challenge I face though Adam. I HAVE to work with quite a lot who do have this dark opinion, baseless though their BS opinions might be. I also have to attend client sites for meetings etc so unless they're overseas or London based I pretty much have to drive.

Thing is, I love what I do. I work as a consultant for one of the only two global IT providers (Think brown sauce or laser printers) and more & more I now have to abide by image rules.

So, do I wear a tie? Yes, I was always taught that right from an early age. Erm except that we now follow what the client does. Hmmm. Now I'm not comfortable in a professional environment if I look scruffy. Just me.

Then there's meeting etiquette. To lunch or not to lunch. Again, driven by the client and their customs. Well I can live with that, except I never take alcohol of any description while I'm at work. Never have done, yet I'm now expected to drink wine with lunch etc.

All these are BS rules which I have to live with if I am to continue doing what I love. But then there's the whole thing about the FFRR. It's almost a step too far TBH. My gut tells me it has the square root of all to do with my employer, except the head tells me that they have ways to make me comply which cannot be legislated for. Yeah, I can get another job but all that changes is the name over the door. Attitudes will remain the same. The only real way I can get round it is to run my own business, but I'm not smart enough in all honesty. I'm just rather good at what I've done for 25 years.

Just makes me sad that something I've loved since the age of 6 has become so toxic.

Dom.

Hi All,

My tuppence worth is that the brand has not become toxic. Certain people have though. I love to see someone doing well and working hard - and if they choose to spend their hard earned money on a FF or a boat or whatever, well that's great - especially if they let me have a go in it!

The problem is all to do with poor teaching of manners and attitudes at school and at home, compounded by the total lack of interest by the police if a crime - like keying your car - actually happens. These people with the attitude problem - and it is a problem - almost a mental health issue that requires treatment in some cases - know that they can get away with petty crime every time. Spitting - which a previous poster mentioned with regards to a Roller - it's illegal and has been since they were trying to reduce the spread of TB - but no modern copper probably knows that or could be bothered to drag them in front of a magistrate. Footballers being a good example of some that could do with being bound over to keep the peace...

In the case of the OP - I would continue to use whatever vehicle suited me and my lifestyle for work - and keep a record if they start by-passing you for promotion etc as part of a claim for constructive dismissal. I can understand it if you drove a 30 year old Reliant Robin - that really doesn't give a very good company image - but a reasonably modern and reliable car is all they can ask unless they are supplying it to you as part of the job. If they feel that strongly about presenting an image of corporate blandness tell them to get a few pool cars that can be used to go to clients premises - after all I am sure the clients have to streak of indviduality in them and will only buy their services and kit from grey suited middle aged clones.

The thing that is making the brand toxic is selling the Evoque as a Range Rover - remember what happened to Rover after they diluted the premium brand and badged the Ausin Metro as a Rover?

Bellini wrote:

He referred to the reflected image of footballer and celebrity types buying FFRR's, dripping in disposable income

You should look at a defender, they costs twice as much as my fullfat and yet nobody will look at you as a Lord or a boss, they'll see you as working class when you drive around in your £22k vehicle

So guessing you bought your FF for £11k ….

One of the main things that 's me off is when any tradesmen come to the house to do any work the price just goes Kerching when they see a FF on the driveway ...

MICK wrote:

when any tradesmen come to the house to do any work the price just goes Kerching when they see a FF on the driveway ...

Not seen many Tradesmen with Gold chains and Medalions

Get a lower class of tradesman!

I have to say it depends on what area of the country you are in (like most cars).

Park it in central London (westminster) and you will not stand out. We often have 5-6 LR's on one of the roads we park on. The impression is that a Lambo is ostentacious and vulgar where as a Porsche/RR is "normal".That is not to say its not an aspirational vehicle, it certainly is, but it is not vulgar.

Move to an area where they are less common and they really stand out due to their bulk. Sometimes you can feel a bit concious in it, but I have never had a bad reaction.

One (potentialy) bad point about RRs is on the motorway. They nearly all drive in the fast lane at high speed, honestly you hardly ever see them pootling along at 70mph.

As for the "brand", I would say it has become more aspirational. Previously Overfinch were the aspirational brand. Now that the RR is so sorted in the engine department there really is no opposition. *Gone* Discovery3 HSE
*Gone* Discovery3 HSE
*Gone* MY10 RangeRover TDV8
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Quote:

The thing that is making the brand toxic is selling the Evoque as a Range Rover

Personally I've never conformed to the ideals and imagery that others have wanted me to. I worked for one company that would only allow you to buy a car with 4 doors, no 2 seaters and no 4wds, even though the MD at the time had a brand new Disco2. He was a prize

Weirdly, I ended up with a company car - a Subaru Impreza Turbo 2000. I didn't complain.

I now work for a company where people can have what they like, granted the majority of people drive ordinary cars but there's 2 range Rovers, A Sport, 2 Discoveries (3&4), a Freelander, mercs, jags, an M3, Beemers. No one cares. I drive to most of my meetings and I've never had any comments about the RR. If someone asks me about it, I just downplay it, I never boast about it or talk about it. I never bring it up in conversation. I'm good at my job, I'm polite, courteous and professional and also dress impeccably for all meetings. That's the impression I leave with people, not what car I drive.

People at work know I go shooting, fishing and have an outdoors type lifestyle that requires a 4wd. They see the RR gleaming, they see it in Winter caked in mud and muddy inside, they know its no show pony.

I love telling people who ride in my car that its not brand new, they always think it is, when I tell them its 4 years old, I bought it 2 yrs old for the same money as a BMW rep-mobile and unlike the BMW, its still worth the same or thereabouts, they're amazed.

I love them, always have done since the 2 door classic my dad bought when I was 4 yrs old. He's had them ever since and the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Discovery 4 HSE
1998 110 TUM HS FFR Hard Top XD WOLF
1982 Series 3 Hard Top

*Gone:L462 D5 HSE LUX, L663 Defender 110 HSE, Discovery 3 HSE, 2014MY Range Rover Sport 5.0 Supercharged AB Dynamic; L405 Exec Vogue SE 4.4, 5.0 Supercharged Autobiography, Defender TDCi XS CSW, Defender TD5 HT, Vogue SE TDV8, Vogue TD6, RRSport SC 4.2V8, Classic 3.9 Vogue Auto, Land Rover Series 3 SWB