Advertise on fullfatrr.com »

Home > Technical (L405) > front knuckle cracking
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 39 of 42 <123 ... 3839 404142>
Print this entire topic · 
rvbush



Member Since: 08 Jan 2016
Location: Leamington Spa
Posts: 534

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Stornoway Grey

Sadly JLR are behaving exactly as would be predicted of any large plc, only do what you are required by law to do, anything else becomes a defacto admission of fault and cannot be tolerated, besides the senior bods bonusses would have to suffer and we can't have that.

This is simply how ALL large plc's behave, I actually detest them (not the people who work for them necessarily) because of it. Drives:
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue - Stornoway Grey
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue SE - Zermatt Silver
1998 BMW E36 M3 GTII

Post #682987 17th Jan 2024 12:19pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
CS



Member Since: 14 Apr 2015
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 1370

Scotland 2017 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Corris Grey

What a depressing state of affairs. The idea that LR's response should be based on VIN numbers alone beggars belief, surely the failure itself is evidence enough that the present VIN range is too restrictively drawn.

On "what to do?", if the matter has already been reported to DVSA it is a case of waiting for them to liaise with LR on what is clearly an important safety matter. If this process does not progress satisfactorily one could lobby the minister responsible for DVSA, Guy Opperman MP, probably through one's own constituency MP rather than direct.

Whether it is worth trying to get to a higher level within LR is debatable, but with dealer support it ought to be possible to find out who the decision takers are. Adrian Mardell is the CEO, sometimes a direct approach to that sort of level can help.

It is interesting to see an example of a different approach in BMW's motorcycle division. For some time there have been problems of driveshafts on R models breaking, I think mainly due to corrosion. There were some recalls of selected models thought at particular risk, but BMW have now made driveshafts a service item i.e. they are to be replaced every 35,000 miles. Many driveshafts last much longer than that and replacement obviously involves quite a bit of cost for owners, presumably leading to reduced values in the second hand market, but BMW have clearly decided that they have to accept that in order to prioritise safety. Maybe LR need to make these suspension components service items too. Only Range Rovers since 1988

Post #682994 17th Jan 2024 1:32pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
andy27



Member Since: 20 Dec 2023
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 7

United Kingdom 2015 Range Rover Autobiography TDV6 Balmoral Blue

Kot wrote:
Anyone in JLR with any sense would at least investigate this further, I cant believe they are so stupid.
The brand is totally tarnished by the current security issues and the consequent problems with sky high Insurance premiums.
.....................................................................


Thank you Kot for taking the time to write all this out.
I paid roughly £1k per year for LR warranty until Jan 2023, where I'd had an issue that they wouldn't cover so I stopped buying it.
LR Client Care are not repsonding to my emails, for example, I asked them for their recommended course of action for the driver side suspension knuckle, prior to finding out that it was cracked.
I also asked if they could verify whether it was classed as a service item and was ever part of a service inspection program. No answer.

The LR MD is cagey, on the phone, he says he is appalled and he did return most of the bits on my request but a full workshop history is not going to be provided.
I will ask the other questions though and see what reply I get.
Apparently, LR have made record profits yet our vehicles have lost resale value overnight because of the theft issues, we're being penalised on insurance and now this.
I'd like to find a lawyer willing and capable to take them on but I don't know if I can find the energy.
I did the DVSA report over Christmas and also Ombudsman but had nothing back yet.
Thanks again for your help, it's appreciated.

Post #683004 17th Jan 2024 3:13pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Ammo1978



Member Since: 18 Jan 2024
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1

United Kingdom 2015 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Santorini Black

My Range Rover was subject to a Safety Recall for this issue. Safety recall - N759 - FRONT KNUCKLE CRACKING, they picked the car up yesterday morning at 09:30 replaced both front hub assy and delivered it back to me at 16:00. All work carried out free of charge.
Full vehicle healthcheck included. All came back green.

How has this not been rolled out to everyone? I only knew about it because I checked my Online Service History and saw it as an outstanding recalls item on the front page.

https://www.landrover.co.uk/ownership/serv...story.html

Worth checking if you have any concerns.

Post #683062 18th Jan 2024 10:38am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
cass



Member Since: 12 Oct 2011
Location: northumberland
Posts: 726

United Kingdom 

CS wrote:
Maybe LR need to make these suspension components service items too.

That's an interesting idea, but how many owners would spend their own money replacing these as a preventative measure? I suspect very very few. I wouldn't but I was happy to get it done when JLR are picking up the bill.
Surely the cost of doing this as a service item is in the same ball park as changing the timing belts on some JLR products and isn't a sudden power loss just as dangerous as the suspension failure?
Not wanting to defend JLR too much (I've had plenty to complain about with them) but playing devil's advocate, when does JLR (or any manufacturer's) responsibility end? 5, 10, 20 years old?
If we remove the hysteria around what "could" or "might" have happened if the failure had happened in different circumstances, then it does look like it only ever fails at low speed which fits with all of the examples reported. I suspect if there had ever been a high speed/serious accident then JLR's response might have been a bit different.

"Apparently, LR have made record profits yet our vehicles have lost resale value overnight because of the theft issues, we're being penalised on insurance and now this."

I'm not sure we can blame JLR for the insurance prices, they've shot up on everything, allegedly due to the extortionate repair costs of the increasing numbers of EV's on the road. Similarly depreciation isn't just a JLR issue, it probably just hurts a bit more as we've got used to the artificial market due to Covid etc.
Spare a thought for anyone who has bought a new EV in the last couple of years, our company EV's are now at the end of their 2 year lease, both were listed at £39+k new and are now valued at £10k & £11K with 20 odd thousand miles on them - 70% depreciation in 2 years, that make Range Rovers look cheap Shocked

Post #683118 18th Jan 2024 5:26pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 1464

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

Quote:

That's an interesting idea, but how many owners would spend their own money replacing these as a preventative measure? I suspect very very few. I wouldn't but I was happy to get it done when JLR are picking up the bill.

It doesnt seem unreasonable to assume that a none moving joint should be OK for the life of the wear parts of that component. Metal fatigue should not be a factor in maintenance / service.

Quote:

Surely the cost of doing this as a service item is in the same ball park as changing the timing belts on some JLR products and isn't a sudden power loss just as dangerous as the suspension failure?

It would depend on the circumstances and terming it suspension failure is quite right IMHO, wheel detachment and loss of steering would be more accurate.

Quote:

Not wanting to defend JLR too much (I've had plenty to complain about with them) but playing devil's advocate, when does JLR (or any manufacturer's) responsibility end? 5, 10, 20 years old?

It would depend on what component it is and the 'normal' expectations of that components life. An exhaust system of brake disk at end of life in 4 or 5 years wouldnt be an issue, a suspension knuckle cracking as these are would suggest a design / manufacturing / assembly fault and therefore go back more years.

Quote:

If we remove the hysteria around what "could" or "might" have happened if the failure had happened in different circumstances, then it does look like it only ever fails at low speed which fits with all of the examples reported. I suspect if there had ever been a high speed/serious accident then JLR's response might have been a bit different.

Or maybe some have happened at high speed, totalling the car / ending life and it's not been noticed simply put down to crash damage. IIRC there was a few years ago a fatal crash where a Rangie went off the road at high speed killing the driver with no apparent cause.

Quote:

"Apparently, LR have made record profits yet our vehicles have lost resale value overnight because of the theft issues, we're being penalised on insurance and now this."

I'm not sure we can blame JLR for the insurance prices, they've shot up on everything, allegedly due to the extortionate repair costs of the increasing numbers of EV's on the road.

There seems to be a complete lack of understanding with EV's. Insurance companys seem to write them off in fear of the battery being damaged. A friend of mine purchased an insurance write off EV that had a vey minor scrape on underside (the driver had gone onto a grass verge, not seen a stone there which had wedged under his car. The insurers wrote the car off straight away stating battery damaged. Removing the plastic undertray which had the scrape marks on it revealed a pristine battery with no sign of any damage at all. He's been driving it around for over 9 months with no issues at all.

Quote:

Similarly depreciation isn't just a JLR issue, it probably just hurts a bit more as we've got used to the artificial market due to Covid etc.
Spare a thought for anyone who has bought a new EV in the last couple of years, our company EV's are now at the end of their 2 year lease, both were listed at £39+k new and are now valued at £10k & £11K with 20 odd thousand miles on them - 70% depreciation in 2 years, that make Range Rovers look cheap

A lot fo the EV depreciation is due to market distortion 2 - 3 years go where prices were artificially high, the market then came down to normal depreciation curve which made it look like EV's were plummeting rather than them holding artificially high prices before. Tesla reducing their prices considerably also drove down used prices for obvious reasons, my cousin and his model 3 lost a fortune overnight.

EV Man explains this really well:
 BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #683158 19th Jan 2024 5:59am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
andy27



Member Since: 20 Dec 2023
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 7

United Kingdom 2015 Range Rover Autobiography TDV6 Balmoral Blue

cass wrote:
CS wrote:
Maybe LR need to make these suspension components service items too.

That's an interesting idea, but how many owners would spend their own money replacing these as a preventative measure? I suspect very very few. I wouldn't but I was happy to get it done when JLR are picking up the bill.
Surely the cost of doing this as a service item is in the same ball park as changing the timing belts on some JLR products and isn't a sudden power loss just as dangerous as the suspension failure?
Not wanting to defend JLR too much (I've had plenty to complain about with them) but playing devil's advocate, when does JLR (or any manufacturer's) responsibility end? 5, 10, 20 years old?
If we remove the hysteria around what "could" or "might" have happened if the failure had happened in different circumstances, then it does look like it only ever fails at low speed which fits with all of the examples reported. I suspect if there had ever been a high speed/serious accident then JLR's response might have been a bit different.

"Apparently, LR have made record profits yet our vehicles have lost resale value overnight because of the theft issues, we're being penalised on insurance and now this."

I'm not sure we can blame JLR for the insurance prices, they've shot up on everything, allegedly due to the extortionate repair costs of the increasing numbers of EV's on the road. Similarly depreciation isn't just a JLR issue, it probably just hurts a bit more as we've got used to the artificial market due to Covid etc.
Spare a thought for anyone who has bought a new EV in the last couple of years, our company EV's are now at the end of their 2 year lease, both were listed at £39+k new and are now valued at £10k & £11K with 20 odd thousand miles on them - 70% depreciation in 2 years, that make Range Rovers look cheap Shocked


Hi,
Did this happen to you?
At 30mph, it was pretty horrendous to lose control of the steering and be dragged off the road.
It took a great deal of strength to fight the wheel. My son was in the passenger seat and it terrified him. I'm not being hysterical when I say that if this had happened at higher speed with other vehicles around, say on a motorway for example, it would be very serious indeed.
Being somewhat concerned about the same happening on the other side, I had the joint checked by the main dealer. It was cracked, so just a matter of time before failing. There is evidence of disimmilar metal corrosion and over tightening of these components. That is poor design. Vehicles of the same age were recalled in the US because they discovered incorrect torque settings were applied in assembly. Vehicles of the same age were recalled in the UK but my vehicle was not in either of the 2 ranges recalled.
I paid for the repair. It was considerably cheaper to replace the knuckle on the non-failed side because the vehicle did not suffer consequential damage of failure to a number of other expensive components.
The response I have received from JLR is nonsensical. I appreciate you are playing devil's advocate but your line of reasoning is very similar to the JLR client (don't) care people I have spoken with. This has not happened to them either so they can't appreciate the fear this failure causes.

Post #683190 19th Jan 2024 11:54am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
kendalmint



Member Since: 16 Mar 2024
Location: Stafford
Posts: 1

United Kingdom 

Hi there. New here 👋

Yesterday, I had this dreaded issue of my “wheel falling off” whilst turning a corner at low speed.

I have seen lots of people with this issue and wondered what the latest on the situation is? Do I just have to take it to a garage and have it repaired myself?

Photos attached.

Thanks. Kendal

Post #688222 16th Mar 2024 4:16pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Spikey62



Member Since: 31 May 2023
Location: Worcester
Posts: 14

United Kingdom 2015 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Santorini Black

Duplicate message deleted.. Rolling with laughter 2015 Range Rover SE TDV8 4.4 Current
2013 Range Rover Sport TDV6 3.0 Autobiografy (gone)
2006 Discovery SE TDV6 (gone)
1998 Discovery V8 LPG (gone)


Last edited by Spikey62 on 16th Mar 2024 6:59pm. Edited 1 time in total

Post #688228 16th Mar 2024 6:57pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Spikey62



Member Since: 31 May 2023
Location: Worcester
Posts: 14

United Kingdom 2015 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Santorini Black

Hi Kendall
Sorry it happened to you too. Unless there is a recall on the vehicle, it seems that JLR thinks you should pay for that yourself... I paid for both of mine though I did not ask them first but still this component is failing again and again. I think we are only seeing the low speed incidents where people survive unscathed and the serious accidents are not picked up at all. If a car is totalled it will be difficult to pick up that the cause of the accident was a failure of the knuckle.
You have dashcam footage of the incident? Make photographs too of the parts - did you manage to control the vehicle so that this was the only damage? Mine on the right side also caused damage to the suspension too.
Currently it seems that the knuckles are not in stock at JLR!!!! If you are in a hurry and just want the job done there are OE parts in Lithuania which you can find on eBay..
It is really a totally screwed up product now and then you add the insurance hassle on top - looks like we will be driving German cars next!!! Good luck...
Email address for JLR clientcare is: clientcare@jaguarlandrover.com.
You should also report to DVSA - there more cases that are filed the better. Maybe we have to do a joint claim for this?? There are many cases here and JLR is getting away with murder (hope not literally but I would not be surprised if there has been fatalities too due to this).
Regards
Steen 2015 Range Rover SE TDV8 4.4 Current
2013 Range Rover Sport TDV6 3.0 Autobiografy (gone)
2006 Discovery SE TDV6 (gone)
1998 Discovery V8 LPG (gone)

Post #688229 16th Mar 2024 6:58pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
CS



Member Since: 14 Apr 2015
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 1370

Scotland 2017 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Corris Grey

Kendal, the first step is to check if your car's VIN is in the existing LR recall range. A LR dealer can look this up on the LR system for you. If it is then it would be a case of getting the car to a LR dealer of your choice and arranging for them to do the repair under the recall process, having first checked that the cost will be covered by LR, or if not the whole cost then how much.

If your car is not within the recall VIN range then things are more difficult as LR seem to be declining to cover the cost of repairs in those cases. In that case I'd be (a) reporting to DVSA; (b) asking LR via the dealer of your choice whether they will pay all or part of the cost. If LR decline to pay you could seek to escalate within LR and/or with the minister responsible for DVSA (see my post above, it was Guy Opperman when I checked at that time) with a view to the recall being extended to cars not within the current VIN range.

If your car is not within the VIN range and you get no contribution from LR then it is a case of paying for the repair yourself and doing such political lobbying as you think worthwhile. If you plan on keeping the car afterwards you might change the other side as well. Only Range Rovers since 1988

Post #688274 17th Mar 2024 2:13pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Stick Legs



Member Since: 16 Sep 2021
Location: Somerset
Posts: 27

United Kingdom 2015 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Causeway Grey

If it makes anybody feel better mine is subjected to recall, has been waiting since OCTOBER for parts that are on back order. Rolling Eyes

I have inspected them myself as far as I can and am happy they are not cracked, but still want Land Rover to see for themselves.

I am still using the vehicle but driving a teensy weensy bit more defensively than normal. Just in case.

Post #689346 29th Mar 2024 5:00pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
elboss



Member Since: 24 Mar 2021
Location: Dubai
Posts: 5

United Arab Emirates 2015 Range Rover Vogue SE 5.0 SC V8 Fuji White

My 2015 RR Supercharged V8

The knuckles issue 1st noticed by Dubai dealer back in 2016 and the driver's side was replaced with a new part number (according to dealer).. Later, by end of 2017 passanger side also developed a hairline crack and also got replaced then.

6 years later again I've been advised by the dealer that both sides developed the same problem again !!

So, obviously this is a design problem and LR isn't providing a permanent solution to fix it.

I've owned this car from new, with 98k kilometres it spent %99.9999999999 of its life on Dubai's/UAE almost perfect surfaced roads...This is a poor design from LR and have nothing to do with over-torqueing or rough use. Wife's X5 with same age with 165k kilometres has a similar knuckle setup and no problem what so ever.

Bad design and no solution as of date.



Post #692894 18th May 2024 11:47am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Rio



Member Since: 03 Jun 2024
Location: Albi
Posts: 13

France 

Hello everyone,

By looking at the images of the different knuckles , we can quickly make the difference between the pre-2014 and post-2015 knuckles :

Click image to enlarge


Post #693848 3rd Jun 2024 3:52pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Rio



Member Since: 03 Jun 2024
Location: Albi
Posts: 13

France 

On the other hand, after 2015 all knuckles are normally identical.

But on closer inspection, I realized that the molding of the knuckles is different from one model to another.

What I noticed is that the second mount knuckles are different from the original knuckles (see red arrow)

Unfortunately when I checked my p400e MY18 I have a mold that looks more like those that failed.

Click image to enlarge




Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge

Post #693849 3rd Jun 2024 3:57pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 39 of 42 <123 ... 3839 404142>
All times are GMT

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
fullfatrr.com RSS Feed - All Forums


Switch to Mobile site