The big test is when you see the other 4x4s at traffic lights etc..

The RRS & D4 drivers always look up to the FFRR

XC90 Drivers wished they didnt need 7 seats or they would have had one

The X5 / Cayenne owners would love the FFRR but all justify it by thinking it is slower and their 4x4 will beat it off the lights etc

The reality is that money no object, the majority would have a FFRR.

Many of the other 4x4s are excellent and have many plus points and some may do certain things better than a FFRR or quicker/ cheaper/ less gremlins etc but when push comes to shove it is the daddy and the one that most aspire to own.

It is like the sketch with John Clesse and the two ronnies about the class system. " I look up to him but down at him....

in my view, the X5 is no match for a RR. Just look at the product placement. The x5 is basically the all terrain of the 5 series bracket. the x3 is the equivalent of the 3 series. the x6 the equivalent of the 6 series and so forth. Audi does the same Q7-A6, Q5-A4.

So in that basis, comparing the two is wrong.
The only real competitor of the Range is the merc G-klasse, and once again not GL nor ML, but G only.

Both the Range and the G are the equivalent of the best cars in their lineup. Well, Ranges dosn't have one but merc had the S-class. Most of the G components (interior wise)were from the S.

Now, comparing cars by the usual motoring standards, which is done by awarding points to certain parameters, always gives the win to german cars wheter you're reviewing a polo golf or a3. Look at plastics, germans are better. Look at engine performance, germans are better. etc...but in reallity its the subjective matters that count.

Ranges beat everyone in the subjective scoring. No one will look twice to an x5 approaching a golf course, restaurant, etc... But everyone knows who's the guy with the Range.

As an example, look at two movies, Oceans Twelve and Hitman. In oceans they use a pack of 7 ranges to transport them to the airport, in hitman they use audis. If you happen to have seen both movies which is the coolest that have the best poise looks and quality....???

Speaking of jeremy here is his review, it kinda shows the point...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/j...amp;page=1

No need to argue chaps:

If you think an X5 is better, P#@@ off and buy one (especially if you currently have a FFRR). If you think a FFRR is better, well drive that. Simple.

Car's are so subjective and what does "Better" mean anyway? Better off road? better for picking up girls? better for going shopping in? better for the environment? better value for money? better at making neighbours jealous? better at attracting little chavscum with keys to scratch your paint?

One thing to consider is that motoring journos are no better than any other journo, in that if BMW launch the car in a more exotic location and give out better freebies and more free booze, the opinion may well be swayed somewhat (in the hope of getting invited to the next do). I would use their opinion at best as a guide.

I personally don't like the X5, but also think that the "image" of the Range Rover is more hyped than it deserves.

Can we rename this thread "4x4 Top Trumps"

MICK wrote:

I'm not bothered about journo's or the X5, just pointing out that the "Rangie" has never beaten the X5 In any head to head contest.

And i was only replying to Speedy's question, which although i happen to have a "Rangie" does not mean i wear blinkers were other marques are of interest.

On the reliability stakes of a "Rangie" on a scale of 1 to 10 it borders on a 5.

Not wishing to open a can of worms nor am I taking sides I believe Mick is voicing his opinion objectively, I'm not really surprise that a X5 would beat it in overall scores.
Range Rover is synonymous with wealth, success, and its off road capabilities Its opulence interior that no other car makers would hope to match.

But looking at it objectively, it's build quality is average for the price, dodgy reliability, high running costs, cramp interior for its size, I was also slightly disappointed with its ride quality. If I'm being honest.. the best LR product is probably the new D4 with more powerful 3.0 engine and better quality interior!!

However, Adrian is also right in saying that if money no object, I think most people would choose FFRR

Just my 2p

kin wrote:

But looking at it objectively, it's build quality is average for the price, dodgy reliability, high running costs, cramp interior for its size, I was also slightly disappointed with its ride quality.

EXACTLY But some folk have picked up on the original reply to speedy's question the wrong way, His question was answered with a question not a specific point , and there is no mention in my replies that the X5 was superior , that was somebody else's interpretation.

NOTE TO SELF -- Keep thoughts of any other vehicle to self and i thought RRS drivers were fickle.....

Taken in context I have to agree with Mick and Kin. If I had bought with my head alone I wouldn't have bought any of my Rangies
Ivan FF RR S/C (Gone)
TVR Chimaera 500(Gone)
TR7 V8

If i didnt buy an LR product i would have gone for the X5 or Cayenne

Blissfully happy with my TDV8 and couldn't go back to the D3 or even a new D4. Would never have even looked at an X5 or a Cayenne or an X6 or an Amazon or anything else for that matter.

When I had the D3, I used to notice all the other 'types' on the road. Now, I just don't see any of them. Be assured, nobody in an X5 looks down at the Rangie. It simply has a presence that nothing else can match. Whether or not it is objectively better on paper may be a different question altogether. Bentley and Aston are similar marques and they have their problems too.

 The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom

Still in love with my TDV8 after 9 months. It wasn't so much the looks that initially attracted me but what is under the bonnet and how it drives. I've come to admire it's ageless physical presence. It does make an ordinary daily drive pleasurable.
Only thing that might change my mind is if I cannot afford to change it when the warranty expires and get hit by some horrendous repair bills!
I've had 4 other Land Rovers but none have felt so special hence the interest in this forum and what you folk think of yours.
Hoping the reliability remains good so we have a few more years together. Don't mistake my snoring for a lack of interest?

Hubs wrote:

It does make an ordinary daily drive pleasurable.

Hubs wrote:

Only thing that might change my mind is if I cannot afford to change it when the warranty expires and get hit by some horrendous repair bills!

A warranty is only as good as the company its provided by, and most of the instrance backed ones are dreadful when you try to claim.

After you pass the 50,000 mile mark anything that will fall off should have done so by now. The engine and gearbox are both proven long lasters in BMW's 250,000+ miles is common. The EAS is such a simple system it cant go wrong (it can have worn/perished components - but thats not its fault).

As the age/mileage increases you can expect your service bills to increase as you need to start replacing the occasional pulley, water pump, ball joint etc but that's life! at higher mileage you should increase your oil change intervall and change the gearbox fluid, this prevents large bills in the future. I'm @ 120k and have just had to replace the water pump and front lower ball joints, sum total of £350 (genuine parts and using LR Specialist to fit) not cheap - but it's not going to break the bank either. 

X5s are a good car if that is what you want but in my mind they have that unmistakably German trait which is soullessness. The FFRR has a certain je ne se qua that defies explaination. The RRS is simply RangeRover diluting its core values to compete with the X5 but there is only one True Range Rover. I dont wear Range Rover Jamies but I am proud to be British and proud to drive the Best 4x4xfar in my 4.2SC

Here Here Each to their own or otherwise we will all drive the same car

I still love her - she just cost me £100+VAT to have one of the steering joints replaced, her most expensive repair bill so far, £60 for the part and £40 for labour. 

I agree with most of what Mick has said on this topic. I've had various FFRRs since the classic and they have rarely offered the best specifics in their class (except off-road ability) and have more than their fair share of faults for such an expensive car............BUT as a package I think they are unbeatable and my next car will also be a FFRR as that is what I drive. Without becoming dewy eyed and romantic I do think they have a certain class and sense of purpose (and both in a typically under-stated English way) and the cabin is just a bloody nice place to sit.

I've driven an X5 and it had better road manners than my RR but that doesn't make it a better car. Still, as someone else said "each to their own".

Soup Rules are made for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.