Hi, I have posted this on another Forum, but looking for as much info as possible. Long post here - please forgive that, but there is a lot of info in my head I need to get out.

So, been doing a lot of thinking while the transmission is being rebuilt, installed, removed, sent back for work, reinstalled... I don't really want to talk about all that, it is too depressing...

But, after it is all sorted, I figure that sooner or later, I will be doing this exersize again at some stage. I have no condfidence that the GM box, no matter how well it is rebuilt, or with what parts, will last as long as I currently plan to keep the vehicle.

With that in mind, I am pondering my options for when that time comes. I recon I have a few options, but some appeal more than others.

1 - Get the GM box built again. I think it is a no brainer that I don't want to go down this path again. Also, these boxes have a finite amount of times they can be worked on, as I am led to believe there is machine work required on main housing, and requires machining once it is stuffed, you can only rebuild then 2 or 3 times before they are completly U/S. Remanufacturers of these boxes are already running out of suitable core to do this.

2 - Work out if the ZF box could be fitted - there is a bit of chatter around on this, and while I have no definate answer, it seems like the hardest bit could be intergrating the electronics, but still may be an option.

3 - Convert it to a manal transmission... Now, I know some will think this is impossible, or at least cost prohibitive, but I've done a bit of research, and I think it may be possible, and at a similar price to getting an auto done - assuming I do all the work myself...

I have gone through what I think I would need to do this, and I have a few blanks which I am hoping someone may be able to help with, or at least add to the discussion - remember, this is just a feasibility study at the moment. Starting from the engine, I have had these thoughts...

For a start, the BMW X5 E53 (2002) 3.0 TD6 model was available as a 5 speed manual out of the factory. I can't find a lot of info on these boxes, but it does beg the question - would it bolt up... Is the block the same on the manual and auto, and is this the same as the RR variant?

If going down that road is a bust, then converting to an entirely different box may be an option. 1st and formost in my mind would be - which box? This is a question I have yet to answer, but I have thought through a few other things.

Bellhousing - can get custom units made easily enough if the correct data can be obtained for the engine and gearbox. Cost would be in the order of $1,500 to $2,000... Another option would be to convert a bellhousing that fits the engine already, but this gets us back to the BMW box, and if one of those isn't available, then I doubt a bellhousing would be...

Spigot bearing - I don't know if the crank will have a recess for a spigot bearing, but as there was a manual gearbox option - maybe. Even if it doesn't, I can soon whip the crank out of the engine and get this machined.

Flywheel/ring gear - fairly straight forward if the bellhousing issue is overcome. You could get a custom one made, or modify an existing unit.

Starter motor - see bellhousing - that's all part af getting around that problem...

Clutch pedal - again, I don't think this would be a huge issue. There are plenty of aftermarket pedal boxes available, but I haven't checked out how much room there is to put this where it needs to go.

Transfer case - gearbox would need a custom output shaft and adaptor made to bolt up to the transfer case - while not a DIY job, there are engineering mobs that will do this. I wouldn't be the first person to modify a box to bolt up to a 4WD transfer case.

After all that, there would be the jobs of making an appropriate hole in the floor, and cosmetics of having a gear stick poking up through the console, but that is minor stuff compared to everything else.

The biggest hurdle, as with the ZF conversion, could be the electronics... Not sure how the car would react to not having an automatic transmission anymore... When the trannie crapped itself, the engine continued to run fine, and rev no problems - seeming oblivious to the fact the trannie was in a thousand bits, so not sure if just leaving the loom off, or pulling out the trannie ECU would work or not....

Anyway, that's about enough for one post. Feel free to add ideas, suggestions or any other comments - both good and bad - I'm a big boy, and I can take it.

This is not the first time I have gone and done something like this, so apart from the custom bits I might need making or modifying - if there is something that will work, and will fit between where the engine and transfer case is, I'll probably have a crack at it one day - this is a longer term plan, and someone else may have done this, or are planning this - who knows?

Cheers - Gav.

You could try just removing the connector for the gearbox ecu and see what happens??

If you are going to put another box in I'd reccomended going for one out of either a 3.0 SDV6 or 3.6 tdv8 as they are great box's that lockup really quick instead of slipping really easy like the gm box does

I think going the manual gearbox way would be hard work, and I mean really hard as there are programmable gearbox ecu's out there, not cheap mind but it depends if they are needed or if you can get away with not having an ecu for the box.

kingpleb wrote:

You could try just removing the connector for the gearbox ecu and see what happens??

I'll try that when/if I ever get the car back...

kingpleb wrote:

but it depends if they are needed or if you can get away with not having an ecu for the box.

That is the question I would most like answered...

Cheers - Gav

I like the idea personally but what a shed load of work to do but it could be done with the time and money as for which gearbox to go for if you could find a smashed up x5 manual im sure at least 80% of the required parts needed would fit no problem due to the similarities in the vehicles
Another thaught is if you can keep most of the parts a standard part maybe you could devise a sort of kit package for other people to do this mod and recoup some of your development costs
Have fun and if you do do it dont forget the pictures onto no6 Range Rover

Everyone needs a hobby

Hi Gav

Another thought is just upgrade to a later model RR [ 3.6TDV8 & ZF auto ]

Just a thought May be cheaper in the long run

Gary

33CHINACARS wrote:

Hi Gav

Another thought is just upgrade to a later model RR [ 3.6TDV8 & ZF auto ]

Just a thought May be cheaper in the long run

Gary

Thought about upgrading, but that probably won't happen in the short term (or even the long term). This is a longer term project as I hope to get a few years out of the rebuilt trannie, but I generally keep cars a long time, and I also like the idea of a manual in one of these.

Thought about going down the X5 gearbox route, and this is still a posibility, but the manual versions are extremely rare in Australia, so not sure how I will go finding one of these.

I have been looking at a Toyota box - the R151F may fit in without too much hassle, but I have yet to get the dimensions on one of these.



I'll keep this thread updated for those that are interested. With the amount of these cars out there, and with lots of them suffering trannie problems, I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of doing this, and I'm not in the position where I can afford to upgrade my vehicles often (I'm also sure there are plenty of others like this), so this may be a solution.

I'm not scarred of the hard work - been down this path before with other vehicles. I've done non standard engine & gearbox swaps before, but not on a vehicle such as this - that's all part of the fun!

Time will tell... Cheers - Gav

Scratch the R151F, not the best box so I'm told. The H150F is the go...

Looks like I may go with the BMW gearbox, as although they are very rare over here, I can get one out of Europe easily enough, and they don't cost the world. The only thing that is troubling me is that it shows the transfer case in the X5 is an NV125, not the NV225 that is in the RR. Does anyone know what the differences are between the two? I am hoping the bolt pattern and spline is the same. If it is, we could have a goer.

Cheers - Gav

Would the difference in transfer boxes be the X5 not having a low ratio 2010 3.6TDV8 Stornoway Grey/ Black interior - gone
2005 4.4V8 (M62) Bonatti Grey/ Parchment interior - gone
1998 4.6HSE Blue/ Cream interior (can't remember exact colours) - gone
1977 White - gone (should have kept)

Yes, thanks for that Drakes. Didn't think of that at the time.

Cheers - Gav

You are a brave man! I have to admire people who go against the grain. Please keep us updated with the progress  Reformed