Trommel wrote:

GregP wrote:

I dont think striking is causing the ecomonic position we are in.

No, it's helping it.

There is no money.

The public sector has been grossly bloated by Labour's cynical meddling and pensions are now paid for 25+ years after retirement, not 6 or 7. Ludicrously-generous unfunded public sector pensions cannot be maintained - selfishly claiming it's "my right" is only going to screw over future generations even more.

When will people wake up to this?

Thats your opinion, but is not neccessarily accurate. How do you actually know this will make a big enough difference to the financial situation?
Plus, surely some people that have been working in the public sector for 20-30 years have been paying into this pension long before labour got involved.
Every single post on this thread is an opinion, no one knows for sure all the in and outs of the current financial position we are in and what actual impact the pension changes would make.
All we see if what the media show us, and I for one think they talk every single day! FFRR TD6 HSE
Adriatic Blue with Parchment leather.

kingpleb wrote:

I think it's grossly unfair to the people who are striking.

At the simplest form it's a contract.
They were promised to get a certain product if they spent so much a month.

Then they were told ah to get this you now need to pay another 30% and have another 10-15% taken off your wage to make up for it.

Oh and now we want to change it again so it actually pays out a lot less than you thought.

At the end of the day they are just being shafted again and again. Why should they or anyone stand for it? You don't see mps taking pay cuts or limits on their expenses to protect the coffers do you??

GregP wrote:

I dont think striking is causing the ecomonic position we are in.

yes, plus there are too many people living on a small island, with a growing percentage of those people doing very little to support the countrys development. Thats my issue, everyone that works (private and public sector) does their bit to support the countries development yet its always us that seem to get stitched up to fill the holes caused by those that sponge off the state. Well this time I'm making some noise!! FFRR TD6 HSE
Adriatic Blue with Parchment leather.

GregP wrote:

yes, plus there are too many people living on a small island, with a growing percentage of those people doing very little to support the countrys development.

Ahaa, as I predicted, the 'stop sending aid overseas' argument.

So in order to protect pensions for our wonderful public services, which are much more generous than their counterparts in the private sector, we should cease to give humanitarian aid, and just leave people overseas to die. After all we're a small country.

Before Labour got in we were 4th largest economy I believe, OK so after 13 years of labour government we're down to 6th, but make no mistake, we are still a very prosperous developed nation. We just have high expectations, and like to whine a lot whenever any of our 'entitlements' or 'rights' are eroded.

Where we are an extremely small country is when we get into our 'little Briton' mindset, so obsessed over our little problems, and forget how lucky we are compared to 90% of the world! Range Rover-less at the moment - Pining!

Interesting to see Milliband this morning saying "stop blaming the previous government and admit that the cuts haven't worked - you should have spent even more to boost the economy". Dumb Bit difficult to get the ship back in to port in the middle of a storm after the idotic previous captain sailed us out with a good and accurate long range forecast!!! Doesn't happen overnight I'm afraid.

Sorry mate, but to do that the cuts would have been even more severe or we would have had to borrow even more. Then we'd be in an even deeper mess given that we can't dig ourselves out of this until the global situation starts to ease off. If we can't get foreign investment and can't export our goods abroad, what's the point in throwing money down the pan?

Get the debt down ASAP, as they are trying to do, stop wasting money on ridiculous interest payments and get to investing in the future. It'll be hard going for 4-5 years, but worth it in the end.

Support Apprenticeships. Support small but well managed and viable businesses. Support people that want to get back to work regardless whether they are publically or privately employed. Support hard working families. Basically start supporting Britain and the values that it should stand for.

Stop supporting the lazy layabout wasters that put nothing back to the the system. Stop giving away hard earned taxpayers cash to support the disaster that is the eurozone. Stop supporting the loony left wing crazies that want everything for everyone without anyone having to pay for it and for christ's sake, stop wasting time blaming each other and work together for a change and get it sorted out.

Start shaking the moneypit that is the public services sector to get rid of all of the deadwood at the top that are creaming it and pass this cash down to the hard working teachers, nurses and other frontline service staff that really need and deserve it. There's a hell of a lot of middle/senior management in the the public service sector that earn well over £120k/yr - with all the related gold plated benefits that go with the job. The public sector is just as top heavy as the private sector when it comes to remuneration, and a lot of it can't be justified in the slightest.

Those keep there mouth well and truly shut when the cuts are discussed as they know they've had it too good for too long and want to avoid the limelight as much as possible. They leave it to the "real" workers to fight their corner on their own.

Back on track though, strikes won't help - as the poll seems to suggest it doesn't have strong support (although a FFRR poll probably isn't the greatest cross section of people to analyse...)

There's a lot of emotional argument both ways going on here, but as said above, polling a bunch of Range Rover owners probably isn't representative of society as a whole. In fact, most of those on strike tomorrow would probably look at us as being the ones they're against.

But, facts are facts. We all agree that the country is skint. We also all agree that something has to be done about that. It also seems to be the general opinion that the public sector expenditure has to decrease.

So, first things to go will be luxuries. Now, like it or not, a public sector pension is a luxury as far as the exchequer is concerned. There is no fund behind the scheme, it comes from general taxation so trimming off the fat is essential.

There should also be a top down stripping out of unnecessary non-job staff, a whole other argument.

The ONLY alternative to balancing the books is more borrowing. That borrowing has to be paid back, by us and future generations. I really don't see how anyone can justify taking money from the next generation to fund something that is a luxury. And yes, it's a luxury. There is a state pension in place and people are free to make their own arrangements as we do in the private sector. Having such a gold plated scheme in place then can only be classed as a luxury.

In times of hardship the country cannot afford luxuries. No amount of striking is going to change the cold hard facts of the situation. It's business, that's all. Sorry, that's the way it is. So therefore, armed with this knowledge, to deny children a day's education, to deny people operations on the NHS, to cause massive disruption to the general public (paymasters to the public sector) etc, well it can only be seen as selfish and churlish.

Will a strike change the fact the country is broke? No.
Will it reverse the decision made by government? No.

So what, in the name of everything holy will it actually achieve? Nothing positive, that's for sure.

Harsh? Probably. Accurate? You decide. Me? I just hope and pray nobody loses their life due to this strike. That'd be pleasant, having to explain to someone that their loved one died because some person was too busy striking for their rights to do the job they were employed to do. Ah, but now I'm getting emotional about it, and it's only business

Now, anyone care to guess which way I voted??

This is really hotting up now
Ok just playing devils advocate here with an issue I have mentioned before. Second homes!
Very much a luxury to anyone lucky enough to have one
Not particular fair considering the impact it's had on those looking to get their first home and not able to do so. Those people have then had to rent the house they can't buy, lining the pockets of the lucky devil that could afford the second home in the first place. Hey they then might go on and buy a 3rd home. Happy days!! That will be an ideal little nest egg when they retire.
How would these second home owners feel if they were asked to sell their second homes, and give a chunk of that cash to the government to support first time buyers and young families looking to buy appropriate housing. I reckon they'd be pretty off and would prob tell the Gov to go row a boat.
Personally I think it's a great idea cos it would only benefit the current economic situation we all find ourselfs in.
Obviously one valid argument that goes against this idea would be that those that have second homes worked damn hard to be able to do so. Well guess what, I work damn hard for my pension so leave it the alone!!

Just another way of looking at things  FFRR TD6 HSE
Adriatic Blue with Parchment leather.

shops will be busy tomorrow...

Been running my own company for 6 years now. At the moment I'm about 50% down in salary, have no sick pay, no time to go on holiday and no pension, i'm just trying to tick over. If i don't win my next tender ill have to shut my company down and find another job.

So what's my views on this strike, well be happy you even have a job and if you don't like the one you got then go get another, like i have had to do all my life.....  2004 black Vogue TD6

well said many of us don't have the luxury of striking

GregP wrote:

so leave it the alone!!

bozmandb9 wrote:

Ahaa, as I predicted, the 'stop sending aid overseas' argument.

So in order to protect pensions for our wonderful public services, which are much more generous than their counterparts in the private sector, we should cease to give humanitarian aid, and just leave people overseas to die. After all we're a small country.

Anyway we should all get into banking......get paid silly amounts, claim an even bigger anual bonus....bigger than most public sector workers will get as their salery.....make brave/stupid decisions with the money at work since its not yours......oh and if you do up with your decision making fear not since the public will bail you out! Even once you have been bailed out keep up with the bonus culture, you know it makes sense!

Failing that become a politition, claim for your multiple houses...earn a fortune and take back handers to line your nest egg.

I'd love to strike but I am a certain public sector worker that is not allowed to do so....hey ho I could always swap jobs and retrain 2/3rds into my career.

Daz

The root of the problem then is that workers have been paying into the scheme which has then been poorly managed and not made into a fund, correct?

Is this then the fault of the people who have trusted a gov system to do the best by them and manage the money they pay in correctly?

As above if someone had a 2nd, 3rd, or more homes and rented them out and were then forced to sell them and give some of that profit back to the gov to help new buyers get said houses, would that person or company be happy and take it? i think not, yet we have a massive house shortfall and new homes are just not being built quick enough and leaving many people without the choice of owning a home and facing high rental prices