Hi all,

Originally I had a 4.4TDV8 Westminster, sold that for an L405 as I thought this would be a no brainer upgrade. After 2 years, I'm excited to be rid of the L405 and replace with another L322.

Now, I'm not doing as many miles and, after losing almost 20 grand in depreciation for both vehicles over 4 years never mind the few thousand in repairs, now realise that fuel is not exactly the primary concern. That being said, I use my RR for long 400+ mile trips on occasion, and so would like to satisfy the following:

1. Reliable transmission/engine. This has led me to the 4.2 and 4.4 AJV8 engines, from research.
2. 450+ miles out of one tank, for cruising at 60-65mph.
3. Physical Handbrake.. Bitten once, twice as shy. I hate the electronic hand brake system, and I park on a fairly steep incline so I can't just leave it in park all the time.
4. Want similar V8 power that I had from the TDV8. I don't drive my cars fast or hard at all (I have a motorcycle for that), but the tdv6 in my L405 felt slow and overworked with a stupid amount of turbo lag.

From what I have read, there is not many advantages to the BMW 4.4 V8 unless I can find a rare, good deal on one. The main thing that makes me apprehensive about the 4.2 SC is the range on a tank of fuel. Some people claim an average of 20mpg, which would give a range of over 400 and leads me to believe I can get close to 500 on highway cruising out of a tank. And others claim a permanent average of 12-15mpg, which would give a range of around 250-300 before I the low fuel warning light comes on. And, though this would only amount to an additional £1k or so each year in fuel, refilling every 300 miles is a bit too low PARTICULARLY because I definitely won't be using all the power - I prefer to put on the music and take it slow and steady.

So, looking at the market place now, my choices are:

1. 4.4 BMW Unit - Not many non knackered examples about, and not sure what the advantages to these engines are
2. 4.2 SC - Quite a few decent examples to choose from, don't know if I actually prefer the sound of a SC over a naturally aspirated. Prefer the honest "farmer" look of a vogue, over the gangster look of a supercharged. Fuel consumption is horrendous according to 50% of owners. I guess the only advantages are that there are many more of these available, and an extra 100 horsepower
3. 4.4 NA - Have heard you can average 20mpg with a light foot, seen a youtube video getting a range of over 550 miles out of a tank. Negatives are, rarer to find cars with this engine at all let alone in a nice spec.

Decisions, decisions.

Personally, I’d go for a jag engine version.

I liked the 4.2SC and on a gentle run you could teeter around 20mpg on it. 13-15 towing and about 16-18 the rest of the time for me ( lots of shortish journeys )

The NA is better on economy, and more refined iirc. I think the head and cam setup is more complicated than the SC … reliability of that complication I couldn’t comment on, I don’t have experience beyond some saying that the simpler SC setup made it potentially more reliable (less to go wrong type thing )

The BMW engine was reliable for me … although I personally would change the stat to a lower temp one.

Lastly, for me the 6 speed gearboxes in the jag engines are better I think. V8 or else ...

I seem to remember that the main advantage of the BMW engine over the Jag unit is that it is easier to fit and run on LPG.

 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Thanks fisha.. I agree the jag engines make more sense. Is that 20mpg on a motorway run, or just general use? I’d say do 70% motorway speeds, 30% local. At around 5-6k miles per year id like to average 1 fill up a month.

Having had the 4.4 BMW engine and now the 4.2SC I can comment on my experiences.

The 4.4 is a nice engine, smooth and powerful but mated to a gearbox that couldn't handle the torque. it duly went bang and needed a gearbox rebuilt and new Torque convertor. Luckily this was under warranty as the £3000 it cost to fix it was frightening. I then sold it.

My latest L322 is the 4.2SC with only 93k on the clock. I've had it 2.5 years now and I love it. Powerful & refined like all L322's are. No gearbox issues as the 6HP26 ZF unit is up to the job. I'm getting 19/20mpg on a run from Stevenage, Herts to the Lake District and back. Around the lanes it drops to 16/17mpg. It's fully serviced and looked after extremely well now being in fine fettle. It has the manual handbrake as its a 2006 model and the road tax is in the low band as it was registered before December 2005.

I'm pondering a 5.0SC but tensioners and chains issues are making me very cautious. Gavin

2005 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.2 Supercharged V8

Follow my 4.2 Supercharged antics -
https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic63354.html
https://www.instagram.com/l322_supercharged/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8ChHNSdscnJarKjBLd_IAg

The BMW 4.4 Petrol (M62 engine) was very reliable for me in my 2002 L322, other than the cooling system, as Fisha has mentioned above. I also ran PRINS VSI LPG on this car.

A couple of times I blew a coolant hose as these engines run hot. LR / BMW modified it for the later models (mine was a very early 2002 L322), with different coolant hose configurations, different pressure rated expansion tank cap and the thermostat as well.

The only other issue I had was with the gearbox (ZF 5HP24), they all seem to fail at around 100-120K miles behind this engine and that was a very expensive re-build. The locking Torque Converter friction material starts to break down, which then contaminates the gearbox. Preventative maintenance can be as simple as ensuring the TC actuation solenoid is ok and not allowing the TC to slip. Troubling signs of TC locking issues are a vibration when on light throttle and going up a gentle slope, the vibration is a bit like going over painted rumble-strips.

Vanos units can be noisy on the M62 engine, mine never had any trouble at all and was as sweet as a nut.

I have no personal experience of the Jag engine, but I do know it's well regarded.

Regards,

Jon 1992 RR Classic 3.9 efi Vogue
2014 Disco 4 HSE
===================
Both my fatties now gone...
Previous: 2011 L322 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE /// 2002 L322 4.4 V8 HSE /// 2009 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 XS /// 2004 Defender 90 TD5 /// 1993 110 V8 Snatch Landrover /// 2005 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 SE (Aus) /// 1990 110 Isuzu 3.9 County (Aus) /// 1976 Series III Trayback (Aus)

My '02 BMW V8 was the most unreliable car I've ever owned in 50 years of motoring including student bangers. Not much didn't go wrong...although the engine itself was OK. Gearbox was the most expensive but cooling a close second, and there was no point in the 4 years at which all of the electrics/electronics worked 100% - always something wrong.

I got a similar MPG return to Superspoons in my 4.2SC. A brilliant car - 100% reliable for me over 5 years and 60k miles (from 60>120). Nice and powerful, supremely capable, and a lovely place to be with all the toys. If you go for the 4.2SC try to find a post 07MY facelift - not much in it really but I think of that as the sweatspot.

Avoid the early 5.0s (MY09-12) unless the chains have been done. Another great car, and even more powerful, but I found harder to drive smoothly than the 4.2 - very sensitive to throttle position, so not enough acceleration suddenly becomes squeeling wheelspin when eg pulling into a gap on a roundabout and the throttle press difference minimal. Mike - MPx

2017 5.0 V8 Supercharged SVAutobigraphy Dynamic SVO Palette Grey (2021-...)
2012 5.0 V8 Supercharged Autoboigraphy Orkney Grey (2017-2021)
2007 4.2 V8 Supercharged Vogue SE Tonga Green (2012-2017)
2002 4.4 V8 Vogue Bonnatti Grey (2008-2012)

We are on to our sixth Range Rover now, starting with a 1987 Classic 3.5 Manual carb 4 door in sh!t brown with vinyl interior, through a couple of 3.9 Auto Injected, a 4.6 P38 and the most expensive (repairs, electronics and servicing!) a 52 plate 4.4V8 Petrol L322 that we had for 14 years.

We now have had an 05 plate 4.2 Supercharged for 6 months now and its a fabulous motor! I personally have only driven it a couple of times as its my wifes car (I have a 2.0 Beetle Cabriolet) but the Range Rover is a brilliant motor,
Up to now its behaved itself impeccably, sounds great and goes like a rocket, has a lovely supercharger wail as well!!

The biggest issue you're going to have is the "physical" hand brake as that means you need a pre 2006 car which would limit you to either the BMW 4.4 V8 (the least appealing in my eyes, also the least efficient), the Jaguar 4.4 V8 (very rare) or the 4.2 Supercharged on a 55 plate.

We've had a 3.6 TDV8, a 4.4 TDV8, a 4.2 Supercharged and a 5.0 Supercharged.

If you are definitely looking for a petrol and can find a 5.0 that's had the timing chains done and has been pampered by a previous owner, that's where my money would go. Effortlessly smooth, blisteringly quick when needed, and the most efficient of the petrol V8's.

David. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 5.0 SC Autobiography in Indus Silver with Jet/Ivory Interior
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

The Jaguar based V8 Petrol is a nice unit, but the car tax is £64 a month

https://regisearch.co.uk/registration_sear...n=BF07+CVC

So if you really want a petrol L322 with physical handbrake, it might be worth finding a nice
one registered before 22nd March 2006, where it's only £36 a month for a petrol 4.4 V8 car

I am not sure how many Jaguar 4.4 V8 petrol cars were made before 22nd March 2006, as I think from memory they only started delivering them in Feb or March 2006, so I suspect very few cars will have been registered before 22nd March 06 - if you find a nice one it would be a great purchase I would think

I have a 4.2 s/c on 260k and a 4.4 with the Jag engine with 105k - I have had the 4.2 for 14 yrs and the 4.4 for 6 - I go to SW of France regularly and always take the 4.2 it is in my opinion just a better car - I have never had an issue with the handbrake.
My average MPG overall is 4.2 18 and 4.4 19 - so not much in it on a motorway run using gentle acceleration ( thats where the fuel gets used ) on the motorway in France 80mpg with cruise on usually about 21 in the UK because of the traffic more like 18/19
My preference is for the 4.2. The 4.2 has never let me down the 4.4 has an erg fault at the moment but again never let me down

pcourtney wrote:

The Jaguar based V8 Petrol is a nice unit, but the car tax is £64 a month

That is much better than having one registered after 2017 where the VED is now £2745 per year

It's only £2,745 or whatever it is for the first year which is built into the sale price of the car.

From then on it's around £600 a year until the car reaches 5 years old when the expensive car supplement drops off and the tax becomes around £170 a year for the rest of the cars life. When this plan started it was £140 a year!

The 2017 onwards cars are the cheapest Range Rovers to tax one they reach 5 years old and even in the first 5 years are cheaper to tax then the 2006 - 2017 cars.

David. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 5.0 SC Autobiography in Indus Silver with Jet/Ivory Interior
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

Yes...I paid £180 for 12 months on my SVA last Jan. Not absolutely clear how they came up with that number but it was a pleasant surprise so I just paid and kept my head down.... Mike - MPx

2017 5.0 V8 Supercharged SVAutobigraphy Dynamic SVO Palette Grey (2021-...)
2012 5.0 V8 Supercharged Autoboigraphy Orkney Grey (2017-2021)
2007 4.2 V8 Supercharged Vogue SE Tonga Green (2012-2017)
2002 4.4 V8 Vogue Bonnatti Grey (2008-2012)

the BMW M62 engine is, to me,ok while its ok, but try to get a garage, who know what they are doing to work on it and its a know show, they just wont.
i am in australia but i have been told its the same in europe.
if you get 200,000km out of the engine without doing the timing chains etc, you are very lucky.
to have the timing chains done, i was quoted $10,000, the parts were $5.000.
the only people who i was told would do it, i wouldn't touch them with a barge pole, when i was buying some parts of them, i mentioned to them that i was doing the chains, i didn't ask them to do it. but they said they wouldnt do it.
i love it RR 2005 4.4 petrol
Any spelling mistakes are the fault of spellchecker
Previous MG J2, CITROEN light 15 x 2 gone unfortunately
Present MERC 180e, RANGE ROVER L322, JAGUAR XJS, MERC 280SE, MG F, JAGUAR S-Type 6v 2003, jaguar s-type 8v 2004, Ford Cougar