SamThomas wrote:

Putting aside queuing & paying for factors.

Once I pull up at the diesel pump with an almost empty fuel tank & in something like two minutes have enough fuel to last me 600 miles.

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Just imagine the size of the cable & socket required to do the same with an EV.

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We may see some form of induction charging but I would not want to go anywhere near that personally.

JayGee wrote:

That would be an option even if it was just a smaller battery to get you say 50miles like topping up with a 5L can of fuel.

AJGalaxy2012 wrote:

SamThomas wrote:

Putting aside queuing & paying for factors.

Once I pull up at the diesel pump with an almost empty fuel tank & in something like two minutes have enough fuel to last me 600 miles.

And when I goto sleep at nigh I wake up with my battey full, works for me. How often do you do 600 miles in a day?

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Just imagine the size of the cable & socket required to do the same with an EV.

No different to the cables and sockets we have now, they just ramp up the voltage to 800v @ 90 to 150 amps


[QUOTE
AJG can bang on as much as he likes but I just don't see that happening.

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We may see some form of induction charging but I would not want to go anywhere near that personally.

The ramp up to 800v has already happened, Porsche Taycan and Hyundai Ioniq 5 to name 2, these charge incredibly quick. As for the safety, they will have hardware in the control box that wont switch on power until all safety circuits have been verified. in reality youre far more likely to receive burns from petrol than you are getting a shock form one of these.

I do agree we have a long journey ahead of us but necessity is the mother of invention.

As for preaching, if that's what i do, i apologies unreservedly to you and everyone else. When statemnts are made as facts when theyre wrong I set the record straight such as "A used EV theres no point, the batteries are knackered after 8 years and cost £10k to replace". This old chestnut I see time and time again and it is absolutely untrue.

I'm a firm believer that you should choice and I'm not sure a ban on ICE is way to get to our final destination. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

SamThomas wrote:

JayGee wrote:

That would be an option even if it was just a smaller battery to get you say 50miles like topping up with a 5L can of fuel.

Option ? - is itr April Fools Day already ?

Seriously, that's not very practical is it ?

TBH, I was not aware that 800v charging was already in place. However, I stand by my comments regarding safety, having spent decades as an electrical engineer (mostly maintenance/faultfinding) I've come across too many instances of badly maintained/bypassed safety systems. I'll say no more on that subject.

I'm the first to agree that we do have a long road ahead. However, I'm not too sure that we have to go 100% EV - there will always be a place for ICE. In any case, globally, our efforts will probably have little effect.

I do agree with you regarding "used EV's/knackered batteries". The clue here is in the name "battery". A battery is a group of items used together albeit a set of artillery guns or cells. A 12v battery is a group of 6 x cells linked together to form a battery. Usually, when a battery fails it's only one cell. No doubt when EV's leave the dealership network specialist will be able to replace only the faulty cells in an EV battery at a cost effective price.

I'm glad that you do agree that a ban on ICE is not the way.
I used to do work for a FLT company back in the days that they were electro-mechanical (i.e. no electronics) & a common "fix" was to link out dead cells to get more life out of the batteries !

I do sometimes wonder if the ICE is unfairly blamed for health issues to the extent it does. Until semi retirement just a few years ago I spent my entire working life covering 1 > 2k miles/week, breathing in traffic fumes as "fresh" as you can get & I'm still here. Then again I've never willingly taken in harmful to health substances.

800v does sound 'scary' but just what have people been handling for the last 100 years to fill up their cars with?
I keep a lot of solvents and 'stuff' in my workshop but the one thing I won't store is petrol.... No one is proposing to ban ICE in specialist commercial applications but we need to drastically reduce it's use for personal transport. The health effects of ICE emissions are well known and becoming more apparent with time esp from the very smallest particles emitted by modern ICE's. I'm not going to frighten anybody but the info is easy to find if you search for it.
I'm planning for my next car. Petrol is too expensive pre mile for my annual mileage, EV is both too expensive and doesn't have the range so I have no option apart from Diesel. In 5 yrs time the answer may be very different. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

cass wrote:

I can't see why a system of swapping batteries couldn't be adopted, it can't be impossible to standardise a battery that you swap for a charged one when required.
It works with FLTs and other industrial machines, I've seen batteries changed in under 3 min which is a lot quicker that I can fill mine up from empty.

cass wrote:

I can't see why a system of swapping batteries couldn't be adopted, it can't be impossible to standardise a battery that you swap for a charged one when required.
It works with FLTs and other industrial machines, I've seen batteries changed in under 3 min which is a lot quicker that I can fill mine up from empty.

"But what happens when the battery you get is at end of life and gives you very poor range?
What happens if the connector is burning up the battery and then you plug it in to your car ?
How does it handle the refrigerant situation?
There are so many pitfalls with this approach. Many batteries now form part of the chassis of the vehicle.

Nice idea but not a practical one I fear."

Not at all, it's a tried and tested process that has worked for far longer than the current (no pun intended) charging system.
FLT's have progressed onto the newer battery technology, it's not just lead acid that works like this.
Your concerns are very minor issues, a battery at the end of it's life would be removed from the charging cycle long before it became an issue as would any with a connector fault. Batteries only form part of the chassis because they don't currently need to be swapped over.
The flat batteries wouldn't need to be force fed electricity at very high speed causing all of the problems and risks associated with that.
I struggle to see any real problems when compared to conventional charging, obviously most of the charging happens at home but there will always be a need to "fill up" away from home

So we can disconnect the refrigerant pipes, disconnect the HV lines, disconnect the communications, take out a lot bolts, drop the battery down, take it away, lift the new battery into place, reconnect everything, regas the refrigerant all in under 5 minutes at a sensible price?

I can see some people who may have a battery that's approaching end of life using such a service, when they next have a good one just keeping that with the car.

I am familiar with FLT's and battery swapping from years ago, nothing the complexity in a FLT battery. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Electrically, it's very simple to change a battery over, most use coolant rather than refrigerant but even that 'could' be on self-sealing connectors. so your down to the mechanical elements. We change BEV packs (discounting the coolant which isn't on self-sealing connectors) in about 30 mins. with 2 men, so not a huge amount of time. However each battery is specific to the vehicle manufacturer - not just it's capacity but it's physical dimensions,fixing points etc. Then there's the control strategy and software... Realistically you'd need each battery to be like a video tape so it could be compliant with different machine manufacturers, just with different runtimes. That's a lot of work & cooperation.... my worry is we'd end up with something like VHS, instead of BetaMax.

Well, not my worry as I'd be one of the diag techs being paid a handsome amount to sort it out whilst spaffing the extra money on the hyper-taxed fuel for my diesel FFRR....

JayGee wrote:

The health effects of ICE emissions are well known and becoming more apparent with time esp from the very smallest particles emitted by modern ICE's.

Diesel exhausts used to always point down to the road presumably to deposit a proportion of the load on the ground rather than in the air. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

AJGalaxy2012 wrote:

So we can disconnect the refrigerant pipes, disconnect the HV lines, disconnect the communications, take out a lot bolts, drop the battery down, take it away, lift the new battery into place, reconnect everything, regas the refrigerant all in under 5 minutes at a sensible price?

I can see some people who may have a battery that's approaching end of life using such a service, when they next have a good one just keeping that with the car.

I am familiar with FLT's and battery swapping from years ago, nothing the complexity in a FLT battery.