Daily Mail web news has this Defender using Hydrogen fuel cell article,

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/art...ender.html

That's excellent news, i would have a hydrogen car in a heartbeat, not bothered by electric battery as completely the wrong way forward in my view, no different to the government changing direction on diesel (oh what a surprise!)

I will be front of que for a new Range Rover Hydrogen anyday, and thats from a true petrol head

Not many area's that can provide Hydrogen yet, can they install enough in 5 Years time? Maybe by that time they can reduce the cost of Hydrogen to an acceptable level.
I already have ITM and Ceres Power shares the future looks bright for them if they can pull this off. 2018 SE SDV8 4.4 Byron Blue

Google "PowerPaste". That has got to have more potential than hydrogen in gaseous form - no infrastructure to build and an energy density greater than petrol!

I too think batteries are unsustainable and all wrong for cars in general so am following this development closely. Bish.

2005 110 TD5 CSW
2011 TDV8 Vogue SE (gone)

DrF wrote:

That's excellent news, i would have a hydrogen car in a heartbeat, not bothered by electric battery as completely the wrong way forward in my view,

Many car manufacturers have made Hydrogen mules...

Posted a thread about this Daily Mail article earlier today, as CTC said, lots of makers have tried this.
Not really news, as various makers have been experimenting with this idea for a long time now.

I have always thought that this is the best way to go.

The day they come up with a cost effective, efficient method of getting Hydrogen from source to your fuel tank, will be the day batteries die. Yeah I know, I just couldn't resist it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article...caars.html

New article on the Daily mail site, at least someone is now talking sense instead of just pushing battery powered cars

Battery cars do make more sense than hydrogen on many, well, on all levels really.
Hence why there's still no mainstream hydrogen cars.
Electricity is cheap, easy to produce anywhere on planet earth. Hydrogen for individual cars is not energy efficient - and you are still running what is indeed an electric powertrain. lots of over-complexity unfortunately. l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolΞΞΞΞΞΞΞloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

Question is, will it be able to tow 3.5 Ton like the current vehicles? As far as I am aware, most electric cars are not capable of towing. I think the only exceptions are the Tesla Model X, Audi Etron and a Mercedes model which I can't remember.

Ivan 2013 Vogue SE SDV8
2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Luxury

A hydrogen car could tow if you give it a motor to match and the system to do so. Like most current electric vehicles, no hydrogen car is currently made with this purpose in mind.

As far as electric vehicles, the larger ones do, such as the ones you mentioned, but many more are coming this this intent, including CyberTruck, Ford 150, Rivian RT1, etc. Indeed, to tow you need torque, nothing beats electricity for torque, so larger EVs and larger Hydrogen vehicle could (they are essentially a self-producing electric car with electric motor(s) and a battery fed by the hydrogen system)

The hydrogen vehicles could indeed, however, would they be significantly less efficient (they requires more energy to produce Hydrogen, transport it, store it, to in fine make electricity in the car)
Hydrogen system does work, but electric cars are simply much more simple, efficient, reliable, and cost effective. l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolΞΞΞΞΞΞΞloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

The problem with batteries is the sourcing of the metals - very environmentally damaging and also very scarce, Add that to a relatively short battery life and relatively long charging cycle and it just doesn't add up for me.

With PowerPaste you need no infrastructure - you could refuel at literally any cornershop that stocked the "cassettes". Obviously in its infancy currently but if the same effort was put into developing that as has been (in my view) misguidedly spent on batteries it would develop very quick I would think. Bish.

2005 110 TD5 CSW
2011 TDV8 Vogue SE (gone)

"The problem with batteries is the sourcing of the metals - very environmentally damaging and also very scarce, Add that to a relatively short battery life and relatively long charging cycle and it just doesn't add up for me. "

This is not the case anymore, and hasn't been the case for years really. New techs have eradicated the need for several metals, and more and more of these are now recycled meaning eventually we wont dig anymore, simply repurpose the materials (new techs allow recycling 95/98% of older batteries to make new ones - see Redwood materials, etc. https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/)

''Shorts battery life'' this is not the case. 2012 Model S teslas still run around with original batteries with 85/90% battery life and some have well over 500.000 miles (taxis mainly)

''Long charging'', another myth, run a relatively modern electric car and you'll see you don't need to spend much time waiting, if any. Bear in mind each time you leave home/the office/work, you can leave with a full 'tank' so you only need to refill/charge on a long journey.
On Tesla model S 85D we can drive for 2.5/3 hours without stopping, but then we need to stop for other 'needs' than recharging the car. Then a 25/45 min for lunch is appreciated. Then it recharges at the destination.

Now if you drive more than 5 hours a day, fuel will still be best unless you opt for the latest Model S with 400 miles range.or even +500 with the Plaid version.  l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolΞΞΞΞΞΞΞloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

Likewise, looking forward to hydrogen fuel cells. I won’t touch a pure EV, take the I-Pace as an example small print is only a small percentage of fast charges are allowed otherwise the warranty is invalidated. Cost to replace the battery today….c£20k. Speaking with the taxi drivers in the Netherlands they hate the Tesla’s for the poor build quality, the battery range variations in winter/summer, they have to have 2 per driver to allow them to give 24hr cover. On battery life they really are not that good, getting better yes, but they are all looking into using them for powering houses or recycling (not in place yet) them.

The suggestion in some quarters is that a certain EV manufacturer has also hired a lot of influencers to negate the negative press on the material issues in terms of sourcing and method of extraction…. underwater mining of the seabed and thermal vents next??? Not so green, it just means non reliance on China! The next dieselgate perhaps??

The new Toyota Mirae is the future for me not Tesla. The new Mirae on test got 600miles on a tank, takes 5mins to fill, cheaper than the Tesla equivalent at £68k (still not cheap). Latest fuel cell is down from 15mins to 30secs per cell to manufacture, just need the infrastructure. It also cleans the air as you drive, produces water as a byproduct…..what’s not to like??

Just my 2peneth!

Last edited by Slow progress on 10th Jul 2021 3:25pm. Edited 1 time in total