I have just replaced all the hoses and the front calipers and on a 2008 TDV8 and been using the ICarsoft tool to bleed the brakes (whole system). However the bleeding sequence on the ICarsoft tool contradicts the sequence in the manual.
Having bled them three times; once sequenced by the manual, twice by the ICarsoft tool the pedal travel is still excesive and a bit soft indicating air remains trapped somewhere.

I have rebuilt the brakes on many cars and bled brake lines for many years, and never had a vehicle that did not become air free by the third attempt at worst case.

Can anyone provide some advice please, or should I take it to my nearest LR dealer (1 mile away) or brave an independant garage...

Generally rears cause the problem.
You must bleed till you have good pedal.
Start from far rear. 2010 3.6tdv8 180k km.
sold 06 td6 160k
Sold 03 td6 260k

Thank you, I will have another try next weekend and let you know how I get on.

Hi, I have the same problem in a 2008 tdv 3.6. Replaced rear pipes and 1 front after much bleeding have a pedal that travels more than it used to, but stops the car, doesn’t improve with pumping, but when left over night will press to the floor.
Did you sort yours with more bleeding?
Cheers

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic44822.html 2012 TDV8 Black Edition
2000 Disco. TD5
1975 series III

My one has not been progressed any further, pedal has never reached the floor though. I did take it to a local LR specialist to check it out. They bled the brakes again and they said it was fine and don't worry about it... The car brakes perfectly apart from the pedal travel, I have wondered about fitting a new master cylinder in case an internal seal is leaking a bit, just a thought at this stage.

I did like the set up from nino_nino, impresive.

I bought one of these, easy to use, fill it with brake fluid, connect to master cylinder, pressurise to setting on gauge,
then bleed system, not cheap but well made. When I replaced all my brake lines I used a cheaper version called Ezee-Bleed that uses a spare wheel air pressure.

Brake master cylinder seals can and do wear over time and can leak fluid into the next section of the bore. my classic had total brake failure, no leaks anywhere but pedal went to the floor. replaced with new maaster cylinder, bled system braking was perfect.

I replaced all my fluid using the two person pedal method, simplest way in my opinion.

I used 2 litres of fluid to completely flush it all through. Christian.


Current Cars
2011 Range Rover Vogue SE
2020 BMW M4 Competition
2019 BMW X4

My RR Blog: www.facebook.com/L322Project
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I've always gravity bleed the brakes on Fattys, works well, just take the top off the reservoir. Start at the bleed nipple furthest from the master cylinder...crack it open and wait.... after a few minutes brake fluid comes out, wait until you have a steady stream without frothing then close and move to the next, checking on the level at the reservoir.... It can take a while to come through if you changed a pipe but so far I've not had to use diagnostics to bleed the ABS pump, maybe I've been lucky....

I try to do all I can to not pump the brake pedal... the stroke of the piston in the master cylinder is only short way every time you brake. When you use it as a pump to get fluid through you are asking it to travel it's entire way, if there is any debris, or even a witness mark on the bore from the seals then this can damage the seals and cause a low pedal..

The last time this happened to me was a low mileage car my good lady bought, so low mileage the front callipers were slightly seized, changed these and had to pump to bleed.... then fit a new master cylinder...!!!! Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

You’ve got to be mega unlucky to for a master cylinder to fail when bleeding brakes but if it’s going to go then it would go anyway. I’d rather it fail on the drive when bleeding than when having to do an emergency stop.

There really shouldn’t be any detritus in a master cylinder and the seals shouldn’t really cause any wear inside because they’re rubber and soaked in oil and the cylinder is hardened steel.

That being said if there were a weak point in the braking system it’s better to discover it like this than on the M25. Christian.


Current Cars
2011 Range Rover Vogue SE
2020 BMW M4 Competition
2019 BMW X4

My RR Blog: www.facebook.com/L322Project
or
https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic61540.html

Fair point, I imagine it depends a lot on when the fluid was last changed... my post is more tailored towards owners of older cars who are keeping them on a budget....

In all the hundreds of cars I have owned over the years I have never had a master cylinder fail in use, I once had a servo fail... I have had several fail whilst bleeding the brakes though....

In an ideal world everything would be new and perfect but there are plenty of things we can do to help older parts last a little longer...

The chances of losing all braking from a damaged seal inside a master cylinder is so small it is immeasurable, the system is designed to fail in such a way that you will get plenty of notice...  Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

I always thought that the braking system was designed like that too but a friend of mine had a Mercedes E350 estate that went into Mercedes (somewhere near Potters Bar) to have some work done and they forgot to tighten his rear brake nipple and on the journey home he pumped out all the fluid and had brake failure on the M25 slip road up to the roundabout with Potters Bar turn off.
Good job it was uphill as he managed to stop safely.
He was furious as you can imagine.

Made me think differently! Christian.


Current Cars
2011 Range Rover Vogue SE
2020 BMW M4 Competition
2019 BMW X4

My RR Blog: www.facebook.com/L322Project
or
https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic61540.html

All modern cars, including fatties have split reservoirs, if the fluid drains out then it only effects two out of four wheels, unless you have multiple leaks which again is unlikely... you will need to press the pedal harder but you will stop.

Your friend should have noticed the pedal dropping each time he braked until he had pumped all the fluid out even if he did had multiple leaks.... the pedal will not feel normal..! I suggest your friend either didn't notice or he has exaggerated the story for effect..!!

You also have the emergency brake and the later electric ones will stop a fatty from a decent speed very efficiently... even the earlier manual ones work well if kept serviced and adjusted properly...

Failing that tie any passengers to a rope and throw them out the door....  Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

Yes tandem brake circuits have been on cars since I can remember and I'm sure my friend embellished the story a bit, but so would anyone if they had a brake failure due to the main dealer's ineptitude!

I think he didn't notice because he did motorway mileage back from the dealer where it's light braking most of the time rather than coming to a stop on a B road or similar. Christian.


Current Cars
2011 Range Rover Vogue SE
2020 BMW M4 Competition
2019 BMW X4

My RR Blog: www.facebook.com/L322Project
or
https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic61540.html

I have a vacuum bleeder. I think it was about £20 or so. Requires compressed air to power it. Works great. I think its really working along the gravity bleed route but with some gentle assistance. As well as working well it also doesn't allow fluid to get everywhere, so can be a very clean job, which is nice! My orgies of brake fluid with a Easibleed are long behind me!

I've not attacked a ffrr with it yet but I want to do a full fluid change in the near future. Have to admit to being a little daunted at the thought of ecu interference though! I've not stumped up for the diagnostic tool as yet!

Chris