Hi all, first post having search buttoned this place to death.

I've been after a 4x4 for a while, nearly bought a new land cruiser utility the other day, (the really cool one with the steel wheels that looks like a UN fleet Prado). But although I liked the basic but comfortable nature of it, I didn't like that it didn't tow 3500kg, the engine and gearbox didn't really impress me, they wouldn't give me the discount I knew they gave others and the sales bloke told me a load of lies which obviously put me right off him (surely they know if you're not an idiot after a few minutes and would elect to not lie to this particular source of potential income)

This lead me back to my original plan, a range rover, (I cant stomach the poor value of a 100 series land cruiser, the fiance doesn't like discoveries and I don't really see the point in a range rover sport (downsides of a discovery with less space), because we live in the UK, there are no other comfortable, nice, capable, heavy towing vehicles to consider and I'm not owning a VAG product. - I believe there is a V6 diesel ford ranger coming, and the Ineos Grenadier, but you could wait forever for those, and I like my comfort too much, we've got a 7 series at the moment, I've owned a couple of Lexus LS's and lived in Aus and Canada for a few years, driving big comfy vehicles that tick all my boxes.

So now you've had my life story, here's the questions.

1, How important is a diff lock? I appreciate that the traction control on land rovers is the best on the market, but if I go for a 2007 model, is it up to snuff? I spent a lot of autotrader hours searching trying to find one with a diff lock, a light coloured interior, and smaller wheels and in the end I've decided i'm probably going to have to do without the difflock. I do plan on off roading it, probably more than most people ever would.

2, 3.6 tdv8, am I right in thinking I want no later than 2008? So as to have no DPF, and you can blank off the EGR without a remap to get better fuel economy and less to go wrong? Budget for new turbo's at some point. Has the nice 6 speed ZF gearbox which I like (and just had rebuilt for what i thought was a fairly reasonable £2300) in my other half's BMW 730d.

3, 4.4 tdv8, I'm sort of thinking its the reliable one and might be worth the extra 5k? It has the turbo drain issue (which I've only read about and i have no idea what it looks like), but if you've got a heavy right foot, and regularly give the second turbo a workout, it should be fairly reliable. This 8 speed gearbox though, I'm concerned that it'll be annoyingly down changing all the time rather than relying on the power and torque of the big diesel v8. I career changed away from lorry driving a year ago and all the modern 12 speed auto's in HGV's don't kick down until you push your foot past that click at the end of the throttle travel and once you've spent a million miles or so driving like that, it gets irritating to get jolted around with unnecessary down changes all the time especially if the engine has got the guts to avoid doing so, I noted on the "harrys garage" youtube channel, that this was why he preferred the 3.6, and seemingly he can afford whatever he wants. Do people get these gearboxes remapped like they do in BMW circles?

4, towbars, am I right in thinking that anything with a removable/adjustable height towbar has the american style 2 inch hitch behind it if you dig far enough?


Thanks in advance guys, and as a pre emptive reply, yes I'd love a 4.2, especially given post 2007's I believe all have a diff lock, but I plan on buying a caravan and trailering a track car regularly and I don't think I can stomach the cost of the fuel on our holidays being comparable to the cost of flying across the atlantic, which I'd much rather do. Also, I appreciate that I really should be buying an ineos grenadier, but i think we're probably 3 years from those things, they'll probably be more defender than discovery, comfort wise, they'll end up costing too much and I'm not sure it'll ever happen.

1. Diff lock is nice to have, but not essential, if you find a car that is otherwise right I would not pass over it on the off chance that one with it will come along. Your main limiting factor will be tyres, my 322s had either Goodyear MT/R or Duratrac in 255/55R19 for winter. Duratracs are the LR homologated tyre now, the MT/R is no longer available in that size. Duratrac has lower speed rating.

2 -

3. The 4.4 gearbox is pleasant and smooth, and good for towing. One notices the greater power than that of the 3.6. It does not hunt about or jolt. The software adapts to your driving style so if, as I do, you have winter tyres that require a gentler style, you have to "wake it up" a bit once you go back to summer tyres, or it holds gears longer than you might like.

My 2012 WM didn't have the drain mod, but I was able to get over 2,500 rpm on most journeys, so it didn't smoke and I had no DPF problems. Cars used for lots of stop start town use may have problems. The other thing to look for on 322s, especially later ones, is corrosion, you will have seen plenty of threads on here about it, and there does not seem an economically viable supply of replacement panels to repair cars that have bad structural rust, typically sills, front of rear wheel arches etc. Avoid cars with corroded bodies.

4. I'm not sure I understand the question, but the 322 needs an armature and electrics for towing and then the LR accessory choices are either a Westfalia type removable or a farmer's hitch type, I think these bolt into the armature rather than be held in place with a pin and split link. Note the Westfalia style is prone to seizure of moving parts if not cleaned and lubricated fastidiously, and the receiver needs to be kept clean inside too for fitting to work. Only Range Rovers since 1988

2- mine is a September 2009 MY2010 3.6TDV8 and I’m not aware of it having a DPF.
And I have blanked off the EGRs without a remap. No issues for 10000 miles so far.
(Disclaimer - I am fully aware of the MOT related naughtiness and accept that one day I may have to replace the removed parts). 2017 Jaguar F Pace 25t Portfolio - still part of the JLR family 😀
2009 3.6 V8 (MY2010) - my first ever diesel! - now also gone
2004 4.4 V8 Petrol Vogue - now gone

The only times my 4.4 TDV8 annoyingly changes down is in undulating terrain using cruise control at 100 kph without having selected manual mode on the gearbox or if travelling only just fast enough to be in 8th then suddenly booting it, which can cause the gearbox to drop up to 3 gears depending on how much boot. For normal overtaking I tend to pre-select 7th (up-shift to force temporary 8th manual then down-shift to 7th) then boot it fairly heavily, although the g/box then wont drop lower if I decide that I'd like more. For brisk overtaking just floor it then up-shift rapidly as the urgency diminishes.

I’m still getting my head round the fact an HGV has kick down. I’ve never driven one, but want a go more than ever now 😀

Get the 4.4 TDV8, gearbox is sublime. By the time you have kept money back for turbo issues on the 3.6, it’s only a bit more. Not all of them need the turbo drain mod. Biggest issue seems to be leaks from the oil cooler.

Mine doesn’t seem too eager to change down.... I can do most journeys without going over 2000 rpm if needs be.

Go have a drive in a few. Feel what’s good and bad. Then decide.

Just remember that the 4.4 has 6 pot Brembo brakes, which does limit wheel options....and thus off road tyre options.

 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

I've had both 3.6 and 4.4, the latter being an L405, but I think the 8 speed box has very similar characteristics on both models. If I had to choose now i've had both there would be no comparison, the 4.4 is more powerful, more economical, and the 8 speed box is a dream. That said, before the change when I'd not missed what i'd not had, I swore by the 3.6 and did many happy miles in it, thousands of them towing a twin axle caravan all over the UK, France and Germany. My own view is they get better as they get newer. Hope you enjoy which ever you choose.
Also I never had rear diff lock, here's a picture of it in the snow which never caused it any issues.

thanks guys, appreciate all the advice. Good to know about the oil coolers

Theres a lovely 2011 Vogue in old school luxury spec with 19inch wheels and a minimum amount of chrome which is coming into a local garage in part X this weekend, I was going to hopefully have a look at it asap. I don't know much about it yet but the mot history shows nothing but low brake pads and tyres, one of the cleanest mot histories I've ever seen on a potential purchase which i think probably reflects the good character of previous owners. Its on 90K so hopefully I'll be able to get all the fluids most don't bother with changed before the diffs and gearbox get tired, maybe give the intake and egr's a clean out before things start to deteriorate.

mjdronfield wrote:

I’m still getting my head round the fact an HGV has kick down. I’ve never driven one, but want a go more than ever now 😀

mjdronfield wrote:

I’m still getting my head round the fact an HGV has kick down.

Had both the 3.6 and 4.4

4.4 is better, as is the 8 speed, never had much of a problem towing our twin axle 2t caravan or our 3.5t twin Indespension trailer out of the quarry with a full load.

But that said, neither did the 3.6.

You will be lucky to find either with a rear diff. Bear in mind the TC and terrain response will do much of the job that a locking rear diff would. It uses the brakes to lock the spinning wheel. All of the cars have a centre diff which will lock up (maybe not fully I can’t remember) so most of the time you wouldn’t need the rear locking diff. It was available as an option but most L322 don’t have them. The only ones where it is common are the SC models where it was a standard fit (afaik)

The interior of both cars is a nice place to sit, but the tft dash and slightly updated infotainment in the 4.4 is an improvement.

If you can notice it jolt you when it changes down then walk away.... the 8 speed is a very smooth Box and doesn’t hunt around for gears. It will kick down if you press your foot down, but if you want to manually hold a gear then put it in manual sport mode and it will stay in the gear you select. The only time I’ve noticed it being in the wrong gear is on slight inclines where it tended to hold 7th rather than 8 but only when towing the van at 60, in which case a quick twist of the knob and flick to 8th will hold 8th, but honestly unless you looked at the Rev counter you wouldn’t notice..

If the car has a factory or aftermarket westfalia bar it will have the square amaerican style receiver, but the detachable or farmers drop plate are both perfectly ok when attached to it. I have towed a full 3t trailer on the detachable bar and had no problems.

In terms of DPF all the 4.4s have them, the 3.6’ got them somewhere post 2010 facelift afaik, some do and some don’t, however the brakes on the facelift 3.6 took a step backwards as the fronts lost the 4pot Brembos, so if you are looking at towing a lot then finding a decent pre facelift 3.6 with 4 pots or go 4.4. There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

Don’t overthink it. Go 4.4  Gone to a good home: 2011 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Buckingham Blue with Ivory and clear glass = "Rory"
2025MY Defender D350 90 in Silicon Silver on coils
1974 Series 3 Lightweight = "Millie"
Many, many other Landies over the years
My preferred specialist: www.glenrands.co.uk
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Thanks again all, very helpful, I think i've decided that the 4.4 diesel is the way to go, unless i find that magic low mile pre facelift 3.6 for cheap.

Brian Considine wrote:

mjdronfield wrote:

I’m still getting my head round the fact an HGV has kick down.

They do indeed, but then the on board datalogging grasses you up to an irritating little man called a driver trainer who only drives a desk. You also need to brake as is you have an eggshell between your boot & the brake pedal or go over 2,000 RPM even for a second.

No wonder they suffer from glazed discs & DPF/regen issues.

Brian Considine wrote:

mjdronfield wrote:

I’m still getting my head round the fact an HGV has kick down.

They do indeed, but then the on board datalogging grasses you up to an irritating little man called a driver trainer who only drives a desk. You also need to brake as is you have an eggshell between your boot & the brake pedal or go over 2,000 RPM even for a second.

No wonder they suffer from glazed discs & DPF/regen issues.

All true, but it's worth it in fuel savings and you can have a handy app now as well!  MY23 Panamera E-Hybrid
MY19 SDV8 Autobiography - Sold

I have a 2012 Autobiography 4.4 TDV8 and the gearbox is so smooth.

In addition to the locking centre diff I also have an electronic locking rear diff - not that I've had cause to use it yet!

Dunc. The life you have is the only one you'll get; make the most of it.
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2012 4.4 TDV8 L322 Autobiography
2003 TD5 Oslo Blue D2 ES Premium Auto (with mods!)

"In addition to the locking centre diff I also have an electronic locking rear diff"

The carpark at Waitrose can be treacherous.

It's useful on my drive when I have to get past where my D2 has been marking its territory!

Dunc. The life you have is the only one you'll get; make the most of it.
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2012 4.4 TDV8 L322 Autobiography
2003 TD5 Oslo Blue D2 ES Premium Auto (with mods!)