Hi my car has started to occasionally make the cattle grid rumble noise at around 25 - 30mph which as I understand it means the lock up clutch in the torque converter is at the beginning of its way out.

My question is when using the car in manual mode I don't get the cattle grid rumble, does that mean driving in manual mode means the lock up clutch isn't being used and therefore isn't suffering and further damage which will prolong the overall life of the torque converter?

I basically want to ask if using the car in manual mode long term will stop the torque converter from breaking? 2004 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 v8 LPG, Java Black, 22' Hawke Alloys, Black Beast

Your lock-up clutch has three modes of operation: 1) off, 2) controlled slip and 3) on

The vibration usually manifests itself when switching between ‘off’ & ‘controlled slip’ modes, generally at around 25-30mph in 4th gear. It also sometimes appears when switching from ‘controlled slip’ to ‘on’ at around 50mph. Once the vehicle is above 56mph the lock-up clutch is always fully ‘on’ and the vibration disappears.

When I replaced my torque converter I had driven it for several thousand miles in this condition and when I disassembled my old converter to inspect the lock-up clutch friction plate, although worn, it still had material left on it.

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Hi Phil thanks for the detailed reply, do you have any links or contacts for reputable companies where I can get a decent reconditioned unit from?

Also with regards to driving it in manual mode, am I right to assume that damage is only occurring when the cattle grid rumble is heard and at all other times when the car drives silently there is no damage happening on the lock up clutch? If that's the case and I'm not getting the cattle grid rumble in manual can we assume no further damage is occurring in manual?

The reason I ask is i will be able to claim for a free warranty repair after July 2019 so I basically need to get a year's use out for a free repair. It has only just started to make the cattle grid rumble occasionally in auto mode so I'm guessing it's at an early stage.

I have had a different vibration sound that occurs at about 50-55mph for the last 4 years since I got the car but that's never got any worse, it's more a wheel bearing noise but having had the wheels checked it wasn't that. That's more of a buzzing vibration noise and is distinctly different to the cattle grid rumble that's now started happening at 25-30mph. 2004 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 v8 LPG, Java Black, 22' Hawke Alloys, Black Beast

The Sachs WA4/W260 S-2GWK Type F38 torque converter used in the Range Rover 5HP24 transmission features a captive clutch, which means the spring abutment for the LUC piston is friction-welded in position during manufacture. This weld has to be machined away to remove the piston and replace the friction plate and then accurately re-welded back into position afterwards. This is quite a specialist task, so I would recommend that you only use a ZF-approved re-manufacturer with known capability, such as JPAT (https://jpat.co.uk/torque-converter-remanfacture.html), Sussex Auto Parts (http://www.sussexautos.co.uk/torque-converters.php) or John Mackie’s (http://www.mackie-transmission.com/index.php/en/).


From measurements that I took on my car, it’s clear that the lock-up clutch still operates in its controlled slip mode in the higher gears, even when driving the vehicle in Manual :

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Hi Phil and forum,

The 5hp24 in my RR has been out (just like the engine) and reconditioned by a reputable shop here in Netherlands (website www.transmissies.nl and youtube as below)

I have now done another 35.000 kilometer - so approx 21.000 miles since rebuild 2 years ago, and a mysterious rumble around 90 km/h ar 2000 revs just will not go away. In manual mode at 2000 revs its also still there, both in 4th and 5th gear. It goes away when revs move above 22000 rpm, thats 120 kms/ 70 mph and up.

I have spoken to the team at ATR on 3 occasions about the issue, we have done an oil change, an additive and a wiring exchange inside the gearbox on 3 different occasions. Only the additive gave a temporary fix, less than a week.

As last resort I have been at ZF Transmissions near the Hague, they have a service facility but after a 2 hour test drive all they confirmed was reproduction of the problems, not a solution. They dont believe its the LUC.

Can anyone point me in the right direction ?

thanks...








 Mark Offringa
Utrecht Netherlands


2007 L322 / 3.6 TDV8 / Vogue / Java black
2002 Mini Cooper / 1.6 116 hp / Red + white roof / the magic back-up

Gone:
2002 L322 / 4.4 V8 / Vogue/ Adriatic blue
2000 Audi A6 / V8 4.2 / Brilliantschwarz
2003 L322 / TD6 HSE / Adriatic blue

The only certain way of determining if it’s the torque converter lock-up clutch causing the issue is through the use diagnostics to measure & record the engine speed and turbine speed and then to compare the two.

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Thanks Phil.

Checking the rev counter very very closely is what I saw the ZF technician do - but he could not notice any needle movement (speed was fixed with cruise control).

Should I be just patient and wait for the issue to grow ?

On the dates... build sheet indicates assembly of the car June 20 2002 - thats 1 week after gearbox built - and plates were issued August 30 Mark Offringa
Utrecht Netherlands


2007 L322 / 3.6 TDV8 / Vogue / Java black
2002 Mini Cooper / 1.6 116 hp / Red + white roof / the magic back-up

Gone:
2002 L322 / 4.4 V8 / Vogue/ Adriatic blue
2000 Audi A6 / V8 4.2 / Brilliantschwarz
2003 L322 / TD6 HSE / Adriatic blue