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GGDR



Member Since: 26 Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 3545

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Stornoway Grey
LR Solihull Factory Tour & Offroad Driving Experience

Hi guys,

I scored a place this coming weekend for the Land Rover off road driving experience. It's a half day I believe called the 'Taster Drive Experience'..

It's the one right near Birmingham airport, postcode B92 9EH. I think that's also near the NEC?

Pleased to mess up a fleet car rather than mine!

Fairly sure a few of you here have been on it, any tips advice or otherwise?

Regards,
Greg

 Cheers, Greg
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2011 Vogue SE 4.4 with lots of toys in Stornaway


Last edited by GGDR on 28th Aug 2018 7:53pm. Edited 1 time in total

Post #486880 22nd Aug 2018 9:48pm
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John w



Member Since: 14 Jan 2018
Location: Cranleigh, Surrey
Posts: 439

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Autobiography Black TDV8 Barolo Black

Enjoy it Thumbs Up

We did the taster experience a few years back outside the factory at liverpool when we went to see the wife's evoque being made.
It is good fun, and very enlightening at just how capable the cars are.

You don't need anything other than normal driving wear and a coat if it's wet.
If you have to share the car then make sure you have a camera or your phone is charged, it's interesting to see the cars tackle some of the obstacles from outside while the other person drives Cool
That obviously depends what their course is like.

We are booked for a full day next year Wink Too many toys, not enough time

2011 4.4 TDV8 AB Black

Post #486887 22nd Aug 2018 10:46pm
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GGDR



Member Since: 26 Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 3545

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Stornoway Grey

Just got back from Solihull, loads to post up, stay tuned....
. Cheers, Greg
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
2011 Vogue SE 4.4 with lots of toys in Stornaway

Post #487387 28th Aug 2018 6:09pm
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p38arover



Member Since: 16 Dec 2015
Location: Western Sydney
Posts: 1534

Australia 

I did the Solihull tour and LR Experience when I visited the UK a few years back. I quite enjoyed it. I drove up from Bristol for the day and, when it was over, I wanted to go back to Bristol to photograph the Clifton Bridge but the GPS wanted to take me the wrong way, away from Bristol. I eventually gave up on the GPS and drove back to Bristol without seeing the bridge. Sad Ron B. VK2OTC
2003 L322 V8 Auto
2007 Yamaha XJR1300
Previous: 1983, 1986 RRC; 1995, 1996 P38A; 1995 Disco1; 1984 V8 County 110; Series IIA

Post #487405 28th Aug 2018 9:38pm
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GGDR



Member Since: 26 Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 3545

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Stornoway Grey

So as above, just got back to base from Solihull. F A N T A S T I C mind blowing day on many levels....! Razz Razz

I'll break this down into three sections...

1. Factory Tour of the 405, 405 LWB and 494 assembly process
2. Range Rover Museum within the factory
3. Off road driving experience.

SECTION 1: FACTORY TOUR


Love this roadsign on the A-can't remember nearby. Really close to the control tower end of Birmingham Airport.
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You pull into the factory gate, show some ID and you're in the Range Rover / Land Rover candyshop. There's brand new, plastic-on-the-bonnet everythings, Discoveries, Range Rovers, SVRs RR Sports, being driven left and right and everywhere, and being driven from the left side and the right side (LHD and RHD); 80% of these will leave the country. Car transporters also fly in and our, as will as supply HGVs.
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You follow the signs within the site, eventually pull in and you're greeted by this guy:

Made at the LR South Africa assembly plant, they have three of these. You've got your 90s and your 110, these have a 147inch wheelbase and the extra set or doors as you can see. Built for safaris, they were a cancelled order and brought back to the UK specially for use ferrying people about the site. They are not road registered and are speed limited at 20mph. I sat in the third rear door, a bit cramped in that row but super cool.


Click image to enlarge


You check in and the lovely staff give you a coffee, a briefing, a lanyard and a high-vis jacket. Oh and a headset radio for the live commentary around the noisy factory.



Coffee and briefing done and we're off. All three of us in a 12-seat Defender!



So one of the big rules was no photos Big Cry unless he says ok. So bear with me, I took as many as I dared. He did say you can have your phone taken off you if you're caught.

So off we go and he says because it's only three of us we can go to the stamping building. Around we go dodging forklifts in the super-stretch Defender and eventually we see these stacks of 3mm aluminium plate piled up at one end. Amazing over the next few hours we'll see this raw sheet material turned into £90k, £100k even £150,000 vehicles.

This building was built on a base of around 8ft of rubber. They called it a seismic foundation. It's to minimise noise for the neighbours as the presses inside push 8600 tonnes of pressure on those sheets of aluminium. We saw them stamping an entire LWB 405 'side'. There's a 50t gantry crane overhead and they use that to change the dies. It was a truly gargantuan crane. It needs to be hefty because a die set (male and female) weighs 47 tonnes. There are actually 5 presses, the first for the basic shape then the next four pressing more and more detail, punching out holes and cutting away unneeded material with each pass.




It happens in the press 'room' - more of a factory within a factory - which has a strict no-human policy unless personnel leave their 'padlock' on a hook, a safety switch each person carries which prevents the machinery being started until they exit again. They also maintain a very clean environment in there using positive air pressure to keep out bits, for very good reason. What kind of bits?

Well with all that pressure stamping out bonnets, doors etc, you don't want anything in there other than the machines and the sheet of aluminium. But... one day a fly got in. Freddie they called him.

For some reason that only Freddie knows, he flew between the dies and his timing was impeccably bad because when the dies came together he met a with rather swift, 8600 tonne end. But not without leaving his mark. You see they keep it so clean in there because under so much pressure, when the dies come together, there is only room for a 3mm sheet of aluminium. And nothing more. They don't like dust in there let alone a fly. There's nowhere for the pressure to go and Freddie was forever impressed into a 405 bonnet:



But it wasn't just the bonnet, the aluminium took only part of the load - the pressure still had to go somewhere else and the £1 million pound die took a hit and was marked too. Not as badly as the bonnet but it had to be repaired. All because of one little fly. And Freddie becomes Unbelievable fact of the day No.1.

No photos were allowed, but the freddie pic was allowed because it was taken in a corridor.
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When they press enough different bits, they have enough to make a body. This was our next stop:



A cool exploded set-up of all the separate pressings.





And this particular body:



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So how do they stitch all those bits of aluminium together? Spot welds right?

Wrong, they are riveted, (and glued in places) which is a lot more accurate apparently.



Here are a couple of the rivets. They are self-piercing. The pieces are aligned and held together by robots, we saw them riveting a floorpan with sides and roof, the basic box structure and the riveting happens very quickly, but in a one-by-one rivet sequent, multiple riveting at once will create distortions.

Re distortions, we also saw a robot swarming over the body boxes (not even full body shells yet) and that was a QC robot taking 100's of photos. Yes quite literally it's Terminator (Skynet becomes self-aware) - a robot checking a robot and it checks dimensions, fit, tolerances to within microns. Wow. Sorry no photos allowed in this section.

They also have a 'no fault forward' system where any defective assemblies are removed from the line rather than left for the paint shop to correct later.

Unbelievable fact of the day No.2: the line is mixed car bodies, the machines deal with 494s 405s and LWB 405's - and a mix of these bodies were coming along the line. The robots know which body they're looking at and re-tool themselves automatically for whatever body comes past. And the line just keeps going.

The robots keep riveting parts together, and then the doors are fitted as the last step before going off to the paint shop.
No.3 unbelievable fact of the day: the chap pointed out that the doors weren't fitting properly, they were 3mm too high. That's intentional he says. Why? Because the final weight of the door with trimmings, glass, motors, speakers, wing mirrors is much higher than a bare door. All that extra weight causes it to literally slump but it's all worked out in advance and they know it's 3mm so that's why they set the height up 3mm too high. Wow.

We didn't get to see the paint shop, it's too clean an environment for us filthy humans. True.
The cars come along the line and are painted to order. So that means the paint-bots paint each one (which is a different shape) a different colour according to the colour assigned to that body/order. You'd think they'd batch the colours but no, that would slow things down too much. It's all about line speed. The robots can clean and change colour in 10 seconds.

Also, the undercoat is colour matched.
Red car? Red undercoat. Blue car? Blue undercoat.
Reason: this hides scratches better.

Next we went to the final assembly building. We saw the painted shells coming in a few levels higher up and eventually mating to the chassis. They call this the 'marriage'. I say chassis because the drivetrain, suspension, exhaust, everything you'd see if it were possible to take the body off your car, is all assembled on a chassis-type jig. These jigs are a cool concept because they hold everything in the correct position until the body 'marriage'. Incredibly the variables keep piling up and each station this jig passes through introduces more and more combinations of options but each car incredibly gets the right engine, anti-roll bar, exhaust, switch - whatever the correct part is at it's given station.

And - incredibly - these parts are just magically at their respective stations. Which brings me to Unbelievable fact of the day No.4: these parts came off a lorry within the last four hours. Every part. It's called 'just in time' production and most factories run this way these days, not just JLR. It's a magical supply chain that lands the right part, be it an engine, a seat, wheels any part of the car - at the right time, at the right station. Wow. Wow. Wow.

They assemble your regular gas guzzlers and also PHEV's all on this same line. The host chap asked us to wide berth the rack of PHEV batteries, he said for 'extra safety'. They were marked Samsung. The battery packs weren't that big, nothing like a Tesla. Maybe they get two, I couldn't see one going in.

Unbelievable fact of the day No.5: each and every station hosts a 90-second operation of some type. They whole process, the whole factory, every process is divided down into 90 second tasks. We stopped and watched some stations and the host chap pointed out there was no rushing. And he was right, every one of the technicians was cool and confidently carrying out their tasks unrushed.

One such 90 second operation was the engine mating to the engine mounts. Down came a 4.4SDV8 from another level onto the chassis jig. And the two techs on this station guided it onto the studs, unhooked the engine crane, hand-fed bolts onto the studs, then air-gunned the bolts, and then un-bolted the crane hooks. 90 seconds and done, next engine comes along and on and on it goes. Techs rotate a lot and can become supervisors if they're mastered enough process stations. Supervisors wear burgundy shirts. Perhaps a seemingly unimportant detail but when you look around, everything has a system, a process, a symbol, or a colour. Everything means something.

There is also a pull cord all along the line in case there's a problem. The line stops but there are 'buffer' areas so the entire 3km line doesn't grind to a halt.

We then saw wheels being fitted and things are getting pretty final by that time. Their next stop is for fluids; brake fluid, air con gas and minimal fuel. Engines come shipped with oil as do transmissions, diffs etc so they are already done.

Then soon after that, somebody in a high vis jacket gets in and as if by magic, this now-vehicle, whilst not that same actual vehicle that I saw start as a sheet of aluminium, starts up a drives off with the hazards flashing. Then another. And another. And another after that.

These guys take each car for a quick shakedown. They drive over bumps and check for rattles, check brakes and other items. Random, detailed quality checks can happen anywhere along the way.
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Unbelievable fact of the day No.6: The covered bridge. What happens next is the cars (if all QC passed) drive off. They go up a covered ramp and across a covered bridge to a site JRL acquired on the other side of a public road. Yes business is good and they've officially run out of space. So they built this covered bridge to a massive carpark. How could private company buy the airspace over the road off the council? The mind boggles. But the bridge cost, including the cost of the airspace, £25 million so we were told.

Have you ordered a new RR? I think I saw yours today.
And it looked great. Oh, and it was marked urgent.
(No kidding, that was on one car I saw on the line) Thumbs Up

Parts 2 and 3 coming tomorrow.... Cheers, Greg
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2011 Vogue SE 4.4 with lots of toys in Stornaway

Last edited by GGDR on 24th Sep 2018 5:41am. Edited 7 times in total

Post #487406 28th Aug 2018 9:50pm
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Simes



Member Since: 30 Aug 2011
Location: Hinckley
Posts: 964

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Autobiography Black TDV8 Barolo Black

Superb write up! Keep it coming please!

Post #487426 29th Aug 2018 10:20am
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DrF



Member Since: 30 Jun 2014
Location: South East
Posts: 1403

United Kingdom 2013 Range Rover SVAutobiography 5.0 SC V8 Orkney Grey

Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Keep it coming

Post #487428 29th Aug 2018 10:37am
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Hairy Dan



Member Since: 22 Jul 2017
Location: NW Durham
Posts: 177

United Kingdom 2014 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Luxor

Nice write up Thumbs Up The factory tour and getting to drive in the 'Jungle' are a brilliant experience, I went as a guest of Land Rover so not sure if it was the same tour etc but it is very interesting going around the place. If you ever get the chance to do a Gaydon Tour take it as the design and technology centre is fascinating as was the passenger rides around the test track Mr. Green Thumbs Up Cheers Ian
--------------------
Kielder 4x4 Safari

Post #487453 29th Aug 2018 3:38pm
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GGDR



Member Since: 26 Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 3545

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Stornoway Grey

Next Stop:
SECTION 2 - THE RANGE ROVER STORY EXHIBIT

Within a kind of spare building, they have this great exhibition, which is part of the factory tour as above.







This drivable chassis seems at first assumption like a test bed. But when you read the card (see close up) it was to allow LR to explain the differences between the Range Rover chassis and the Land Rover. There must have been a perception issue. I'm sure this was used for press work too. I think the PR department did an excellent job, I'll come onto that in a bit.



It's weird it was drivable, so not just used to sit in dealerships.





Love the colour-coding..




Next is a mock up of a mock up. A reconstruction of the original clay model. If you look closely at the bonnet, the signature castellation is only on the left side. Our host explained that this is common to make final decisions on styling by having left and right sides slightly different. In this case though, they showed a corner without the castellation because they were not sure they could have achieved it in production. Wow. That's a hallmark styling feature and this shows it may not have made it! Luckily they managed to achieve this complicated pressing.







Some original sketches:


The fake Velar badging:


This was REALLY interesting. It's interesting because of the whole Velar thing, they made this badge up from Rover P6 Rover lettering. You can read the card below the engineer Rod Gill's original notebook where he noted down the part numbers he needed. Wait where'd the 'L' come from ? He cut an 'L' from an 'E'. They even registered Velar as a Limited Company to create a fuller picture of deception for any probing journalists. The coolest part of this though? I met Rod Gill. And I'll show you his Range Rover Classic in a bit, which he uses as a daily driver. It keeps getting cooler though, Rod's two door is pre-production vehicle no 006. More on Rod's 006 next post.




Next up: Range Rover Classic fans, set your screens to stun..
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Introducing Range Rover Number Five:



This fella is pre-production vehicle no 005. It's on loan and privately owed.










I'd ballpark this one at £100,000k. Dunno, what do you think?

The next cool section (something I never knew) is about how the name 'Vogue' came about:

Below is a display print of a Vogue magazine Daks London advertorial. The guy looks pretty happy if you ask me. And why not, he's living the tweed dream, he's got his pretend girlfriend on the roof of a brand new Range Rover. He's also thinking about that premium picnic basket in the back.



Custom Range Rovers were already being produced by that time by companies like Wood & Pickett. Land Rover wanted in on the action so they commissioned Wood & Pickett to design a luxury edition. And here comes that PR machine. They lent this one-off to Vogue magazine, who immediately took it to Biarritz and used it as a big 'prop' in a 1981 fashion shoot for the Lancôme and Jaeger fashion collections. Genius.

Once published, demand went through the roof. So the first Vogue model was launched. But it wasn't called 'Vogue', it was called 'In Vogue' - quite a literal name.

I can imagine Mrs. Smythe over dinner asking Mr. Smyth to get one of those and pointing to the picture. "Yes dear I'll get one tomorrow". she looks up with a little frown thinking what could go wrong; "Make sure it's the one in Vogue, don't get a normal one". Mr. Smythe calls up the dealer: "I want the one in Vogue". "Ah yes Mrs. Smythe, you'll be after our "In Vogue' model".





There were actually three runs of the "In Vogue":







The "in" was dropped in 1984 and you can read the following:







This was also interesting:



They've invested quite a bit, that clay model reproduction would have cost a bit alone. This whole part of the tour gets a massive WOW.

Lastly, to finish this section off, all this 80's Vogue magic takes me back to all the incredibly cool product placements the PR dept. got the Range Rover in. Think of the Bond films. For example, that chocolate brown convertible RRC in Octopussy. It was towing a folding jet posing as a horse box.

But perhaps a less expected homage to 80's Range Rovers in film is this one: the final scene of a great 80's film F/X Murder By Illusion. Bryan Brown and his mate have pulled of a major caper and escaped with all the money. The guys drive off into a Swiss sunset in a 5-door RRC, all with with a killer soundtrack. So cool go full screen and turn up the sound a bit. Enjoy:



. Cheers, Greg
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2011 Vogue SE 4.4 with lots of toys in Stornaway

Last edited by GGDR on 24th Sep 2018 5:53am. Edited 10 times in total

Post #487499 30th Aug 2018 5:32am
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CS



Member Since: 14 Apr 2015
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 1382

Scotland 2017 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Corris Grey

Great stuff. When I was on the tour there was the significant benefit of the Defender still being in production. One could appreciate the difference between the traditional almost hand building of the Defender (probably not that profitable as very labour intensive) and the much more automated line for the RRs and Discos. The 'RR story' section didn't exist then, but looks good too. The tours are good value and are easy to book via the LR website or over the phone, and when I booked (a few years ago now) there was no long wait to get a free day. The offroad driving may have more demand, but while you can do a full day with both, I just did the tour. Only Range Rovers since 1988

Post #487555 30th Aug 2018 12:01pm
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Red Merle



Member Since: 19 Sep 2016
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 2158

United Kingdom 2017 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Aintree Green

I’ve been on quite a few factory tours and don’t think I’ve noticed as much as you have in all my visits put together! A very nice write up Thumbs Up

Post #487563 30th Aug 2018 12:42pm
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GGDR



Member Since: 26 Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 3545

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Stornoway Grey

Thx guys. Part 3 coming shortly....
. Cheers, Greg
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2011 Vogue SE 4.4 with lots of toys in Stornaway

Post #487677 31st Aug 2018 9:12pm
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GGDR



Member Since: 26 Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 3545

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Stornoway Grey

SECTION 3: OFFROAD DRIVING EXPERIENCE


What a great way to set the scene. This little Land Rover must have Hill Descent Control! A fantastic set up here on display. It's all original, even with a clear coat to hold the 'patina' in place. Probably worth a fair bit too.

I'd booked the hour 1 on 1 session because I didn't want to take turns with anyone else. But what will I be driving today?

As you can see, all matching white fleet of Defenders, RRSports Discoveries....

...and 405's

There's my Stornaway Grey 322 near the flag, parked amongst the all-white fleet .

After the factory tour they had a very nice lunch waiting and once I'd finished, I met Pete, my instructor. He explained he'd take me around the main area first once, then get me behind the wheel asap.

Great. What are we driving today Pete?

We'll be taking the 4.4 SDV8 405 Greg, hop in:

Ah, thanks Pete, you're an absolute gent. Was hoping you were going to say that.


Looks like a 2018 with those tail lights Pete.. Yes Greg, only 1200 miles on this one.

Can we mess it up a bit Pete?

This nearly new 405 Vogue SE has all-black interior. First time I've sat in a 405 actually. I like them. As impressive as the what-is-it-90k motor is, the 405s don't stir me emotionally. Not like the 322. From the first time I saw it in 03, I always wanted a 322.

Anyway, Pete's driving for a short into and without too much pre-amble, puts it in low range, extended height and heads for this lump of concrete called the peanut.

The peanut gets us on a severe angle and if you look at the screen, it shows we're on 29 degrees.


Doesn't sound that much but let me show you a horizon view:


When you're at the angle, the view out of the side windows is 100% tarmac. It really does feel like the thing will tip over soon.

Then we press on and head for this hill:



Doesn't look much but when we head up we're pointing at blue sky. And I mean that's all you can see out of the windscreen. So Pete switched the cameras on and we're driving from the screen only. I've got surround cameras in my 2011, but these 2018 cameras are super HD in comparison.

I think the front one is gimballed (self levelling) Pete didn't know, but the camera seemed to stay pointing level while the car is pointing at the sky.

Then Pete pulls over and gets me in the driving seat. Great. It's all quite familiar relative to my 322. The Head up display is cool. The twin screen set up doesn't really do it for me personally. It's not as cool as the new Mercs which horizontally join up the dash screen with the typical 'radio' screen to create one mega-widescreen. I like the electric window switching, very nice. Seat controls too. But the opposing Start button and glovebox buttons seem to have been forgotten. They are a hallmark treatment in a 322, seems they've just cleaned things up way too much for my liking. The all-black interior didn't help. Just made it more BMW/Audi like which are a yawn for me. When you hop in a 322, it's a wow and definitely not a yawn.

Anyway off we go and I'm heading over to try that peanut for myself. I managed to beat Pete and got her up over the 30-mark. If you look closely at this pic I managed 31 degrees:


Then there's there are a number of curly windy angles before this crazy bridge:



If you scroll up to the very top of this topic, you'll see one better.

There are a few new off-road features on the 405 - I can't remember the name but it's the opposite of HDC. It lets you crawl up things at a set speed. We tried it out, I thought it was a kind of off-road cruise control and it works really well to maintain a steady set speed when climbing. Say 4mph.

I've got HDC on the 2011 but I've never had to use it. So coming down the rocky steep hills, it was good to try it out on the 405 in proper off road conditions and it's great.

Because I was driving, I couldn't get any pics so I can't show you the "jungle" - but as mentioned by Hairy Dan above, you do head into another area over the road which is basically a swamp. It's super cool because it's the original proving track at Solihull and the original Land Rover was tested there. It looks familiar and I reckon I've seen B&W newsreel footage of Land Rovers chugging through the deep water-filled ruts.

We got the 405 deep in water, so much so that the front camera was well submerged. The "wade sensing" depth readings on the screen are also very cool, haven't seen that in action. Takes the guesswork out of puddles!

Pete my instructor says off-road driving is all about smooth control of the brakes, steering and throttle.

We went all around and around the jungle and eventually the hour was up. It was only an hour but it was a good amount of time. Yes I could have kept going, but it didn't seem short. I got a certificate, a voucher, of and coffee and biscuits. The 405 performed beautifully and Pete was a great instructor. Thanks Pete.

I hopped back into my 2011 it felt very good. It didn't feel like a step back at all. Phew. Even with it's ageing electronics compared to the 405, I do absolutely love the 322 interior. The bank balance is secure. For now.

You'll see in one of the pics up a bit that I parked in a mixed parking area, with the white fleet cars. There' no separate area for guest parking. So, I reversed out of my space and low and behold I found myself facing the entrance to the track. I looked around and I literally couldn't see anybody. Hmmmm. It's right there. All I'd have to do would be to pop mine into extended mode.....

Would anybody notice.....?

.

. Cheers, Greg
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2011 Vogue SE 4.4 with lots of toys in Stornaway

Last edited by GGDR on 1st Sep 2018 8:21pm. Edited 2 times in total

Post #487717 1st Sep 2018 8:33am
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John w



Member Since: 14 Jan 2018
Location: Cranleigh, Surrey
Posts: 439

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Autobiography Black TDV8 Barolo Black

Great write up Greg.

I've not done the solihull tour, only the evoque one at Liverpool after seeing Mrs W's car being built. It all sounds very similar though, including the test track.
Glad to hear the L322 still felt special when you got back in it.
We have 2 half days booked at Eastnor for march, first in the evoque and then in the 405. I'm hoping it's going to be nice and muddy Mr. Green Too many toys, not enough time

2011 4.4 TDV8 AB Black

Post #487745 1st Sep 2018 12:39pm
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Baltic Blue



Member Since: 13 Aug 2015
Location: North Wales
Posts: 3774

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Baltic Blue

Greg,
Brilliant write up and thanks for sharing.

I did the half day LR experience at the North Yorkshire venue and I can equally recommend that place if ever you get a chance to visit.
Mike. G reg 2.5VM Vogue Portofino red 1991- 1999
V reg 2.5td P38 Rioja red 1999- 2006
53 reg td6 Vogue Oslo blue 2006- 2015
11 reg 4.4 TdV8 Vogue SE. Baltic blue 2015- date.
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Post #487753 1st Sep 2018 12:58pm
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