Hi Steve,

The BM54 is actually quite a sophisticated unit (for its age) - and when you start to delve, has a few interesting features including a very comprehensive TMS! It has a bad reputation of output stges failing, which is clearly not the problem either in my case, or the case above.

As regards the outputs (and yes I have Navcoder) the radio polls for the DSP and as soon as it gets a response, drops into DSP (pre-amp out) mode. This is a constant level output to both front and rear speakers (cf the pinout of the BM54), although in reality, there appears to be some crosstalk - ie increase the volume and the output increases marginally.

If you disconnect the DSP, it has a good memory, and the radio requires a cold reset to switch into normal mode - then the output is variable (and audible) with the volume controls. To hack the speakers, just requires a comparison of the rave wiring diagrams to compare difference between low and high line systems (This change to non DSP mode did not work with all of the radios that I had - maybe a question of time, or perhaps new firmware that hard codes them to the car initial configuration).

The mystery, and why I say not to change the BM54, is why the system does not send vol increase to the DSP - monitoring the Ibus, I saw a clear increase vol in 3 steps from the Radio to the DSP at system on (+3,+3,+3, +1) without any control input, but then all control (MFL or BMBT) passes fo the Radio and ends there!

I have tried with two new Radios, and two new DSP's and nothing changes that - even an experienced Land Rover tech was at a loss (although some stealers proposed to put on T4 with no guarantee of results, high tags, and very condescending comments!).

There is clearly something with the DSP, and the way that it is addressed, as perhaps the faint volume increase is actually from the DSP.

I think that we need someone with faultmate and Navcode to find out how to set the DSP diagnostic mode, where it functions as a classic Dolby system test signal (cf Blackbox DSP page) - this would at least allow to see if the DSP worked.

My only conclusion is that as per Blackbox (and contrary to all info from LR main dealers) the DSP is coded with a VIN, and the system will not work if the VIN is not coded, hence my comment re rejection by IKE (or LCM).

Lets find a solution

Im going to persevere with not cutting the DSP out of the loop.

Right, im going to return this 'new' BM54 and get another one. If I get the same fault with very low volume then it cant be the DSP or the BM54. It must be something else, now what else is there on the I bus system? That I know of we have:- instrument cluster, screen/monitor, cd changer, bm54, dsp, park distance control, steering wheel controls, and satnav. Is there anything else?

Whats LCM? And what is a CMT7000 Interface box?

Fraser

Careful with the logic - that was mine and it cost a lot of grey hairs! To get to the bottom of this, need really for someone to tell us what the chain of command for the volume control is, and how to get the DSP into test mode.

Is it BMBT/MFL -> RAD -> DSP or BMBT/MFL -> DSP ?

As I said, I have tried with 2 new BM54 and 2 new DSP, and still no joy.

The LCM is the Light control module and it backs up the IKE configuration data.

I am only 4 weeks into Range Rover ownership so im still not up to speed with all of the abreviations. So to clarify everything can you tell me what each item is.
Monitor on dash..............?
Radio module................. BM54
Amplifier......................... DSP
Logic..............................?
ETC ETC......
MFL,BMBT,T4,IKE,BLACKBOX are also meaningless to me.

Fraser

BMBT is the Display
MFL is the steering wheel controls
IKE is the instrument cluster

LOGIC is another sound system, and is not used in this configuration as far as I know (actually quite freudian as sometimes I think that in this system, neither is logic as in "If, and, or" to which I refer above)

T4 is the Landrover diagnostics system, and Blackbox do a 3rd party diagnostics system (Faultmate)

OK, I spoke to my electronics guru today (he not only repairs BMW nav/audio modules, he does firmware upgrades, adds aux-in to the earlier BM54's, etc. - he knows his poop): he says as far as he is aware, there are no BMW DSP amps coded to the VIN#. They are coded to the vehicle as in coupe, cabriolet, touring, etc. While he couldn't remember having a new DSP amp that made no sound (or only very quiet), he did think this might be a possibility. He also said that this was not something he'd ever encountered before - so he couldn't give us any hints. One item to look for with used components is that the BM54 needs a series 2 DSP amp (but I said that both of you had new components, correct?

He also said that BMW produced almost as many variants to these systems as cars, so something completely new (problem) wasn't out of the question.

If either of you like, he can bench test the components - you'd just have to get them here.

Fraser, I'd still plug in another BM54 just to eliminate that as the source of the problem (despite Steven's reservations ). 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

Steve, does your electronics guru have access to a working system and Navcoder - I would suggest that a good approach would be to get some dumps of actual dialog to see how the "volume commands" are relayed between the components.

Below is a dump of what I saw in my vehicle, and that regardless of the "new unit" mix installed

Heres a series of volume increase requests:


04/12/2010 13:24:08.921: BMBT --> RAD : Device status request
04/12/2010 13:24:08.953: 68 04 BF 02 00 D1
04/12/2010 13:24:08.953: RAD --> GLO : Device status ready
04/12/2010 13:24:12.406: F0 04 68 32 11 BF
04/12/2010 13:24:12.406: BMBT --> RAD : Volume Control: Increase 1 step
04/12/2010 13:24:16.031: F0 04 68 32 11 BF
04/12/2010 13:24:16.031: BMBT --> RAD : Volume Control: Increase 1 step
04/12/2010 13:24:18.390: 3B 03 80 01 B9
04/12/2010 13:24:18.390: GT --> IKE : Device status request
04/12/2010 13:24:18.390: 3B 03 6A 01 53
04/12/2010 13:24:18.390: GT --> DSP : Device status request
04/12/2010 13:24:18.406: 6A 04 FF 02 00 93
04/12/2010 13:24:18.406: DSP --> LOC : Device status ready
04/12/2010 13:24:18.421: 80 04 BF 02 00 39
04/12/2010 13:24:18.421: IKE --> GLO : Device status ready
04/12/2010 13:24:18.609: 68 03 6A 01 00
04/12/2010 13:24:18.609: RAD --> DSP : Device status request
04/12/2010 13:24:18.625: 6A 04 FF 02 00 93
04/12/2010 13:24:18.625: DSP --> LOC : Device status ready
04/12/2010 13:24:18.937: F0 03 68 01 9A
04/12/2010 13:24:18.937: BMBT --> RAD : Device status request
04/12/2010 13:24:18.968: 68 04 BF 02 00 D1
04/12/2010 13:24:18.968: RAD --> GLO : Device status ready
04/12/2010 13:24:21.437: F0 04 68 32 10 BE
04/12/2010 13:24:21.437: BMBT --> RAD : Volume Control: Decrease 1 step
04/12/2010 13:24:25.296: 68 05 18 38 00 00 4D
04/12/2010 13:24:25.296: RAD --> CDC : CD_control: Status_Request
04/12/2010 13:24:25.328: 18 0A 68 39 02 09 00 01 00 01 05 4D
04/12/2010 13:24:25.328: CDC --> RAD : CD_status: Play Request=Play CD=1 Track=5 CDs_Loaded=P1
04/12/2010 13:24:26.015: F0 04 68 32 10 BE
04/12/2010 13:24:26.015: BMBT --> RAD : Volume Control: Decrease 1 step
04/12/2010 13:24:28.625: 3B 03 80 01 B9
04/12/2010 13:24:28.625: GT --> IKE : Device status request
04/12/2010 13:24:28.625: 3B 03 6A 01 53
04/12/2010 13:24:28.625: GT --> DSP : Device status request
04/12/2010 13:24:28.656: 6A 04 FF 02 00 93
04/12/2010 13:24:28.656: DSP --> LOC : Device status ready
04/12/2010 13:24:28.656: 80 04 BF 02 00 39
04/12/2010 13:24:28.656: IKE --> GLO : Device status ready
04/12/2010 13:24:28.968: F0 03 68 01 9A
04/12/2010 13:24:28.968: BMBT --> RAD : Device status request
04/12/2010 13:24:28.984: 68 04 BF 02 00 D1
04/12/2010 13:24:28.984: RAD --> GLO : Device status ready
04/12/2010 13:24:29.812: 50 04 68 32 10 1E
04/12/2010 13:24:29.812: MFL --> RAD : Volume Control: Decrease 1 step
04/12/2010 13:24:29.906: 50 04 68 32 10 1E
04/12/2010 13:24:29.906: MFL --> RAD : Volume Control: Decrease 1 step
04/12/2010 13:24:30.000: 50 04 68 32 10 1E
04/12/2010 13:24:30.000: MFL --> RAD : Volume Control: Decrease 1 step
04/12/2010 13:24:30.093: 50 04 68 32 10 1E
04/12/2010 13:24:30.093: MFL --> RAD : Volume Control: Decrease 1 step
04/12/2010 13:24:33.468: 50 04 68 32 10 1E
04/12/2010 13:24:33.468: MFL --> RAD : Volume Control: Decrease 1 step
04/12/2010 13:24:33.562: 50 04 68 32 10 1E
04/12/2010 13:24:33.562: MFL --> RAD : Volume Control: Decrease 1 step
04/12/2010 13:24:33.656: 50 04 68 32 10 1E
04/12/2010 13:24:33.656: MFL --> RAD : Volume Control: Decrease 1 step
04/12/2010 13:24:35.718: 50 04 68 32 11 1F


and heres the system at start up showing RAD knows DSP is present:


04/12/2010 13:31:50.984: RAD --> DSP : Device status request
04/12/2010 13:31:51.031: 68 05 18 38 02 00 4F
04/12/2010 13:31:51.031: RAD --> CDC : CD_control: Pause
04/12/2010 13:31:51.062: 68 05 18 38 00 00 4D
04/12/2010 13:31:51.062: RAD --> CDC : CD_control: Status_Request
04/12/2010 13:31:51.109: 18 0A 68 39 00 0C 00 01 00 01 07 48
04/12/2010 13:31:51.109: CDC --> RAD : CD_status: Stop CD=1 Track=7 CDs_Loaded=P1
04/12/2010 13:31:51.156: 6A 04 FF 02 01 92
04/12/2010 13:31:51.156: DSP --> LOC : Device status ready after Reset after Reset
04/12/2010 13:31:51.187: 18 0A 68 39 00 0C 00 01 00 01 07 48
04/12/2010 13:31:51.187: CDC --> RAD : CD_status: Stop CD=1 Track=7 CDs_Loaded=P1
04/12/2010 13:31:51.234: 68 0B 3B A5 62 01 41 20 20 20 20 20 FF
04/12/2010 13:31:51.234: RAD --> GT : Screen Text: Layout=RadioDisplay FC2=0x01 Fld1,PartTx=" "
04/12/2010 13:31:51.281: 3B 04 6A 34 28 49
04/12/2010 13:31:51.281: GT --> DSP : DSP equaliser button, Data="28"
04/12/2010 13:31:51.312: 80 04 BF 11 03 29
04/12/2010 13:31:51.312: IKE --> GLO : Ignition status: Pos1_Acc Pos2_On
04/12/2010 13:31:51.359: 80 05 E7 2A 00 00 48
04/12/2010 13:31:51.359: IKE --> ANZV: On-board computer special indicators: Aux_Heating_LED = Off
04/12/2010 13:31:51.406: 68 0B 3B A5 62 01 42 20 20 20 20 20 FC
04/12/2010 13:31:51.406: RAD --> GT : Screen Text: Layout=RadioDisplay FC2=0x01 Fld2,PartTx=" "
04/12/2010 13:31:51.453: 68 0B 3B A5 62 01 43 20 20 20 20 20 FD
04/12/2010 13:31:51.453: RAD --> GT : Screen Text: Layout=RadioDisplay FC2=0x01 Fld3,PartTx=" "
04/12/2010 13:31:51.500: 68 0B 3B A5 62 01 44 54 50 20 20 20 FE
04/12/2010 13:31:51.500: RAD --> GT : Screen Text: Layout=RadioDisplay FC2=0x01 Fld4,PartTx="TP "
04/12/2010 13:31:51.531: 68 0D 3B A5 62 01 45 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 FD
04/12/2010 13:31:51.531: RAD --> GT : Screen Text: Layout=RadioDisplay FC2=0x01 Fld5,PartTx=" "
04/12/2010 13:31:51.578: 68 1A 3B A5 62 01 46 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 C9
04/12/2010 13:31:51.578: RAD --> GT : Screen Text: Layout=RadioDisplay FC2=0x01 Fld6,PartTx=" "
04/12/2010 13:31:51.625: 68 1A 3B A5 62 01 07 54 50 2D 53 74 61 74 69 6F 6E 3A 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 E1
04/12/2010 13:31:51.625: RAD --> GT : Screen Text: Layout=RadioDisplay FC2=0x01 Fld7,EndTx="TP-Station: "
04/12/2010 13:31:51.671: 68 12 3B 23 62 10 43 44 43 20 31 2D 30 37 20 20 20 20 20 4F
04/12/2010 13:31:51.671: RAD --> GT : Display Text: Layout=RadioDisplay Flags=Bit4 F0="CDC 1-07 "
04/12/2010 13:31:51.718: 68 15 3B 21 60 00 40 50 31 3A 20 43 44 20 31 20 20 20 20 20 20 06 2C
04/12/2010 13:31:51.718: RAD --> GT : Menu Text: Layout=Menu Flags=PartTx F0="P1: CD 1 "
04/12/2010 13:31:51.906: 50 03 C8 01 9A
04/12/2010 13:31:51.906: MFL --> TEL : Device status request
04/12/2010 13:31:51.953: 68 15 3B 21 60 00 41 50 32 3A 20 4E 4F 20 44 49 53 43 20 20 20 06 24
04/12/2010 13:31:51.953: RAD --> GT : Menu Text: Layout=Menu Flags=PartTx F1="P2: NO DISC "
04/12/2010 13:31:52.031: 3B 05 68 22 00 06 72
04/12/2010 13:31:52.031: GT --> RAD : Text display confirmation: Screen Text: 7 text messages acknowledged
04/12/2010 13:31:52.078: 68 17 3B 21 60 00 42 50 33 3A 20 4E 4F 20 44 49 53 43 20 20 20 06 06 06 24
04/12/2010 13:31:52.078: RAD --> GT : Menu Text: Layout=Menu Flags=PartTx F2="P3: NO DISC "
04/12/2010 13:31:52.140: 3B 04 BB 4F 12 D9
04/12/2010 13:31:52.140: GT --> NAJ : RGB control: LCD_on GT
04/12/2010 13:31:52.578: 3B 04 F0 4F 12 92
04/12/2010 13:31:52.578: GT --> BMBT: RGB control: LCD_on GT
04/12/2010 13:31:52.593: 68 15 3B 21 60 00 45 50 34 3A 20 4E 4F 20 44 49 53 43 20 20 20 06 26
04/12/2010 13:31:52.593: RAD --> GT : Menu Text: Layout=Menu Flags=PartTx F5="P4: NO DISC "
04/12/2010 13:31:52.625: 68 15 3B 21 60 00 46 50 35 3A 20 4E 4F 20 44 49 53 43 20 20 20 06 24
04/12/2010 13:31:52.625: RAD --> GT : Menu Text: Layout=Menu Flags=PartTx F6="P5: NO DISC "
04/12/2010 13:31:52.640: 68 17 3B 21 60 00 07 50 36 3A 20 4E 4F 20 44 49 53 43 20 20 20 06 06 06 64
04/12/2010 13:31:52.640: RAD --> GT : Menu Text: Layout=Menu Flags= F7="P6: NO DISC "
04/12/2010 13:31:52.656: 3B 04 68 22 05 70
04/12/2010 13:31:52.656: GT --> RAD : Text display confirmation: Menu Text: 6 text messages acknowledged
04/12/2010 13:31:52.671: 68 06 3B A5 60 01 00 91
04/12/2010 13:31:52.671: RAD --> GT : Screen Text: Layout=Menu FC2=0x01 Fld0,EndTx=""
04/12/2010 13:31:52.687: 68 1A 3B A5 62 01 07 54 50 2D 53 74 61 74 69 6F 6E 3A 20 54 53 46 20 4A 41 5A 5A 8B
04/12/2010 13:31:52.687: RAD --> GT : Screen Text: Layout=RadioDisplay FC2=0x01 Fld7,EndTx="TP-Station: TSF JAZZ"
04/12/2010 13:31:52.750: 68 06 3B A5 62 01 00 93
04/12/2010 13:31:52.750: RAD --> GT : Screen Text: Layout=RadioDisplay FC2=0x01 Fld0,EndTx=""
04/12/2010 13:31:52.781: 68 04 6A 36 AF 9F
04/12/2010 13:31:52.781: RAD --> DSP : Audio_control: Source = Off
04/12/2010 13:31:52.796: 68 04 6A 36 80 B0
04/12/2010 13:31:52.796: RAD --> DSP : Audio_control: Fader = Center0
04/12/2010 13:31:52.828: 3B 05 68 22 00 00 74
04/12/2010 13:31:52.828: GT --> RAD : Text display confirmation: Screen Text: 1 text message acknowledged
04/12/2010 13:31:52.843: 68 04 6A 36 40 70
04/12/2010 13:31:52.843: RAD --> DSP : Audio_control: Balance = Center_0
04/12/2010 13:31:52.859: 3B 05 68 22 00 00 74
04/12/2010 13:31:52.859: GT --> RAD : Text display confirmation: Screen Text: 1 text message acknowledged
04/12/2010 13:31:52.875: 68 04 6A 36 C0 F0
04/12/2010 13:31:52.875: RAD --> DSP : Audio_control: Treble = 0
04/12/2010 13:31:52.890: 3B 05 68 22 00 00 74
04/12/2010 13:31:52.890: GT --> RAD : Text display confirmation: Screen Text: 1 text message acknowledged
04/12/2010 13:31:52.906: 68 04 6A 36 60 50
04/12/2010 13:31:52.906: RAD --> DSP : Audio_control: Bass = 0
04/12/2010 13:31:52.937: 68 04 6A 36 30 00
04/12/2010 13:31:52.937: RAD --> DSP : Audio_control: DSP_Function 0
04/12/2010 13:31:52.937: 68 04 6A 36 E3 D3
04/12/2010 13:31:52.937: RAD --> DSP : Audio_control: DSP_Function 3
04/12/2010 13:31:52.953: 68 04 6A 36 AF 9F
04/12/2010 13:31:52.953: RAD --> DSP : Audio_control: Source = Off
04/12/2010 13:31:53.000: 68 04 6A 36 A1 91
04/12/2010 13:31:53.000: RAD --> DSP : Audio_control: Source = Tuner/Tape
04/12/2010 13:31:53.031: 68 04 6A 32 31 05
04/12/2010 13:31:53.031: RAD --> DSP : Volume Control: Increase 3 steps
04/12/2010 13:31:53.093: 68 04 6A 32 31 05
04/12/2010 13:31:53.093: RAD --> DSP : Volume Control: Increase 3 steps
04/12/2010 13:31:53.109: 68 04 6A 32 31 05
04/12/2010 13:31:53.109: RAD --> DSP : Volume Control: Increase 3 steps
04/12/2010 13:31:53.109: 68 04 6A 32 31 05
04/12/2010 13:31:53.109: RAD --> DSP : Volume Control: Increase 3 steps
04/12/2010 13:31:53.156: 68 04 6A 32 11 25
04/12/2010 13:31:53.156: RAD --> DSP : Volume Control: Increase 1 step
04/12/2010 13:31:53.171: 80 05 BF 18 00 00 22
04/12/2010 13:31:53.171: IKE --> GLO : Speed/RPM: Speed 0 km/h, 0 RPM
04/12/2010 13:31:53.187: 18 0A 68 39 01 0C 00 01 00 01 07 49


Makes a big post, but shows that RAD knows DSP is present and seems to want to control it, but only sends Volume commands at start up. After this initial burst, RAD seems to ignore the DSP! Reading again, the only possible lead is that the DSP sends device ready after reset - what is the reset? It certainly is not a hard power reset as it had plenty of those.

Just for clarity, all of my components were from LR, and had the same PN's as the originals.

Lets hope your guy can help us out here!

Hi Steven,
Have not yet heard back - did fwd this to him.

Cheers,
Steve 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

Ok iv been looking into this more and more. I have returned the BM54 (professional) and have purchased another just to make sure that's not at fault. On a number of forums BMW and RR people have touched upon the fact that the DSP needs to be coded if it's going into a car with satnav and the DSP was meant for non satnav cars. I'm looking into this over the weekend. Jalap read that when people replace the RCAs in the BM54 modules they dont always get the exact ones and can cause the BM54 to send out very week audioable signals to the DSP. again I know nothing for sure just possibilities I've come across. Has anyone heard of or know of DSPs being coded?
Fraser

SteveMFr wrote:

OK, I spoke to my electronics guru today (he not only repairs BMW nav/audio modules, he does firmware upgrades, adds aux-in to the earlier BM54's, etc. - he knows his poop): he says as far as he is aware, there are no BMW DSP amps coded to the VIN#. They are coded to the vehicle as in coupe, cabriolet, touring, etc. While he couldn't remember having a new DSP amp that made no sound (or only very quiet), he did think this might be a possibility.

dan_uk_1984 wrote:

Wow, it's like I didn't actually post that at all.

EDIT: Just to make that 100% clear - the DSP is coded to the type of vehicle to optimize the digital sound processing - has nothing to do with VIN/etc. And while my electronics guy (who I've still not heard back from) thought that a DSP amp should provide sound right out of the box (if not optimized), he also said he wasn't completely sure anymore as he's not fitted too many brand new DSP amps himself - he's usually repaired used units or bench-coded them. And used units generally provide sound even if they are coded for the wrong type of vehicle. 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

Thanks for checking Steve - hope your man comes up with something as this looks as elusive as ever. Its strange that with so many Land Rover techs on these forums, that no one is able to propose an answer, and doubly frustrating when you consider that these systems are essentially obsolete, and so all of the "proprietary" knowledge has little residual value.

Been looking at FBH problems as well, but at least someone in the MG Rover forums seems to have identified a hard problem with the control board so that may be easier to fix.

I dropped the car off at Land Rover today and wrote a letter pretty much stating the history of this fault. They couldnt spend too much time on it as they didnt really have a slot. But once I collected it they said they have an audio technician in and he couldnt find any obvious problems. So its now booked in for next wednesday as they want to take some panels off check the wiring and investigate further. Possibly 4-5 hours work. At £75 an hour I hope they find a solution.

Now, say this problem couldnt be fixed, what are the alternatives in terms of still having a radio,tv,satnav etc? Can upgrades be done?

Fraser

stevenA wrote:

My solution has been to hard wire directly to the speakers by making a jumper from the Radio out to the DSP out - this gives a good audio output, although not the same quality, or through all of the speakers, as you would get with the DSP.

Everything works like it's supposed to - except you won't have DigitalSoundProcessing and just the regular BM54 out standard radio. You could even pick up the amp from the premium sound package and wire that in.

You do have the RAVE if you're taking things apart? There is a bit of info on the different systems in that - including all wiring.


Steven, I just called before posting - my electronics guy is skiing... Will be back the week after next  
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

Just a quick update here, the car has been back in to the dealership and they think they have identified the problem to be with the tv module YIL000023 its on order and they are going to try it this comming week.

Fraser

Huh. Now that will be a surprise - sounds unlikely, but the ibus system has surprised me on more than one occasion.

They should be able to just disconnect the TV module (plug the white connector from the TV module into the Nav computer in place of the blue connector and you have the same configuration as a vehicle delivered w/o TV - the TV Module is more or less just "looped in" between the nav computer and the head unit). Save some time and some money - that module from a main dealer is expensive! After the reconnect, do a reboot (batt disconnect) just to be sure and, if the TV module is really at fault, everything should work. 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)