Flashman wrote:

Think I'll stick with my Td6 for now until hydrogen conversions and filling stations are common place (existing cars can be easily converted, but the politicians won't publicise this!).

Some good points made here - read today that the scheme coukd be up to £8.5k per car. Similar scheme in France and there was a big shift towards electric cars.

Alternative fuel en mass will be a long time coming and I'm happy with my 30mpg from the FFRR, got used to the £100 fill up as well as £500 per year road tax. We have become acclimatised to the financial commitment as we just love these cars and nothing else comes close to the driving experience. This is my third after leaving the brand and returning each time as the other cars I had didn't come close. As far as being taxed or banned in cities, well I can use my Ford petrol for that if it comes to it.

Daft thing is that electric cars still pollute - just eleaewhere with the production activities.

I imagine they will have a go, but it will have little impact unless the govt put very heavy taxes on diesel fuel. 2005 L322 Vogue Gold gone
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£8.5k

Going to keep my old rotbox of a Freelander, just in case

The whole story with small diesels came from France. When they decided to go heavily into nuclear energy with the EDF (partly state owned then) Their big oil companies (partly state owned) were affraid of loosing the diesel sales. So the idiots in gouvernement launched the idea of diesel for everyone... That market boomed, small diesels were sold with a state premium (paid out of the vat income)

Now even these idiots see that pollution is a huge problem and the bigger cities are banning diesels. Everyone needs a "vignet" at 5 euros behind the windscreen. On the vignet is a number 0 to 5. Diesels older than 10 years are 5 electric cars are 0, lpg and hydrocarb. Fuels are 1 etc. In 2018 all the 5 cars will be banned anyway.

ofcourse this is not an issue with trucks, busses and airplanes...but you are not allowed to burn some logs in your fireplace in Paris.

In short, yes polution is a huge problem, nobody does anything, carindustry and oil companies are still protected by the corrupt politicians but YOU outthere, you will be punished, you've got to pay.....and the only thing we do is moaning on a forum. Have a nice moanday

martinf wrote:

I suspect that much of the pollution comes from lorries, buses and taxis. What are they doing about them?
Its easy to target cars but many of the newer ones have DPFs and are probably not the main problem. It would be nice to be reassured that the targets for action are the main cause of the problem.

mzplcg wrote:

Hydrogen is about as clean an option as Electric. The pollution simply moves from the tailpipe to the fuel production facility. Combine that with the dangers of highly compressed, volatile gas in a vessel which could collide with many other things and the risks simply don't stack up in favour of it.

The actual manufacture of hydrogen gas is seriously inefficient as well, much less than using petrol in an IC engine even. You should also look at exactly how hydrogen is made as well. Basically it is mostly extracted (atomically separated) from carbon rich materials to which is is bound which releases more carbon into the atmosphere. Isn't that the same carbon as we're constantly being told is melting the polar ice caps?

Maybe, but most hydrogen is produced by separating it from a carbon based product such as Methane (CH4). Using water to make Hydrogen is hugely inefficient, kind of like nuclear fusion. Needs way more energy to make it than it actually produces.

Battery technology is improving all the time, as is the output from solar panels. Ultimately this is the way things will go with lots of micro-generation and multiple small storage like the Tesla Powerwall. None of that requires burning fossil fuels.

Slightly OT here, but I do wonder how much we would need from the grid if every house had a few solar panels, a small wind turbine and something like a powerwall unit.

More on topic, does anyone know how clean the exhaust is from the big diesels which are run on natural gas? (CNG) Perhaps making the trucks and buses use a cleaner fuel would help.

Re solar panels, my experience is that clouds kill production. I have 3kW system (16 panels) which has generated 22MWh of electricity in the past 6.5 years - and we get a lot of sun.

Are clouds and rain a problem in the UK?  Ron B. VK2OTC
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There are many good things about hydrogen, but a little H2 sitting around won't get you very far. Hydrogen must be cooled and compressed in order to get the energy density needed in a car. That extra packaging energy is the biggest mark against H2. If you have a LOT of free energy around, storing it as H2 can have its advantages, but if you are grabbing H's off methane and driving the reaction with coal fired power, then 'no'.