Ok i've been hunting around for some Diagnostics and am coming across 2 problems so far

1. a testbook will only work upto 2005 according to the supported vehicles descriptions.
Is this because it only works on the older pre-MOST equipped L322's?

2. IDS tools come with or without laptops which doesn't fuss me as i have a few kicking about i could use, but none seem to come with a licence and refer you to topix.
When i've looked it seems to indicate its around £480 for a full years subs to access all cars using the IDS tool, but thats not Jags, just Land rovers...

Reason i ask is i've looked at the RAC and the faultmate but they eithe don't support what i have, or are very high price wise for someone who wants to use it on their own vehicle and maybe a few others. IE non-business

Being that the IDS could only work with the more recent LR's(i may be wrong but 2005>) it would limit the amount of ROI i could get from offering my time to help other LR owners with issues as i was thinking of offering my service and sponsering the forum!! for say about £30 per session, upto 90mins as it wouldn't be a profit hunting thing, just something to help other owners out who need full diagnostics and not be charged £80p/h from a dealer or circa £50p/h from some specialists i've seen around my way

Any thoughts and input greatly appreciated ladies and gents

there's a bloke called wiggs [i think] on the d3 forum that has a disco multi-license faultmate and does exactly what you want to do and charges members for services...get the same but for FFRR's and bobs your uncle.... ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
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I've seen the price of the faultmate and them a multi vehicle license on top of that as well and tbh it's more than an imported ids tool and then the topix yearly licence on top(if required which I'm not sure needs to be done as yet) and allows me to do jag, landrover, Mazda an ford units. It would require a multi boot system to work properly from what I've read but that's simple to do

A proper looking testbook starts at circa £1600 which at £30 a pop would take 53 friendly sessions to break even just for the equipment, time isn't much of an issue when it comes to helping people out but it would mean I'd have to help at least 1person every week to recoup in a year but it's a lot of Landy people to help out I reckon even if I was a forum sponsor as the work area is only going to be south Yorkshire really as I can't see anyone wanting to travel much further for a diag session really...

Ps wiggs and others I am not meaning to step on any toes here

Bear in mind that IDS can't do as much as Faultmate...

Ah now that opens the question of what can it not do?

I take it the big one for me of editing the ccm file to enable certain options?

IDS can't edit all the CCF (Car Config. File) options, only what LR have deemed that the dealer network can change..

Ahh 2 outta 3 letters ain't bad

Is there a list to show what parts faultmate can do that ids/testbook can't?

Thanks Martin

Your best bet to be honest is to ask Blackbox Solutions.

Cheers Martin ill go hunt out their contact details and see what they have to say

The development goal for the IIDTool is to be able to offer functionality that is improved over the T4/IDS (except for ECU flashing) - similar to Faultmate.

The first professional units (no VIN lock) have just been delivered recently. We are (anxiously) awaiting feedback. 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

Well I've asked black box and they can't say what their device does over Testbook or IDS but pointed me to their site and the descriptions of each electrical module that is on the vehicles...

Steve, are there any of these test units left for people at all? Please on me if you'd prefer

Well i've asked both places that are selling systems and they have said that no subscription is needed as it just allows updates so i guess every few months buying a 1 day subscription should cover it.

im now sorely tempted for £450 to buy one and try it as no doubt it could well come in use for many faults that will occur(im under no illusions that i will have a fault free FFRR!!!)

Hiya kingpleb

Quote:

Is there a list to show what parts faultmate can do that ids/testbook can't?

As you have discovered, no such list exists.

The reason for this is that it is not as simple as making a list, as once you get past the usual read & clear fault codes and get into the settings and configuration stuff, the way the Faultmate works compared to the T4/IDS is vastly different. it also gets a bit different between Legacy BMW ECU's and the Later CAN bus ones.

For the benefit of yourself and anyone else interested, i will try to explain how the settings of both Legacy and CAN bus vehicle systems are done and how the Faultmate and T4/IDS systems differ in handling them, starting with the Legacy BMW systems, as many of these are still fitted right up until the 2010 revision, eg the Body control.

First off, although most know and understand this sort of stuff already, but best to cover it anyway;
The legacy Body control ECU has a block of EEPROM memory (say 500 bytes) used to store it's various, numerical data, settings and configuration values that will affect how it works. Most of this data is the same for all vehicles, but some values or binary bits of values must be different depending upon things unique to that vehicle, like if the Vehicle is LHD or RHD.

To handle the correct programming of this block of memory the T4/IDS starts off any diagnostic session by first reading a group of special codes unique to each vehicle from core ECU's like the immobilizer and instrument cluster. which it refers to as the LCS (Land Rover Coding Scheme) which is a renamed version of BMW's ZCS (Zentrum Coding scheme, Zentrum being German for central) (It gets very upset if they don't match BTW)
It decodes this, and from it learns everything it needs to know that is unique or optional about the vehicle, like if it is LHD or RHD and actually uses it to primarily decide what diagnostic options to offer, eg petrol or Diesel engine management.

When it comes to programming / re programming (or coding as they refer to it) an ECU like the Body control, it starts with a block of default hex data, but then makes any requisite changes on the fly according to what it learnt from decoding the vehicles LCS data.

The Faultmate simply reads all 500 bytes of data from the Body Control and decodes this into all its various meanings and values, which it then displays on a HTML Body control settings page you can save, named as you wish. This is typically quite a long page with hundreds of values and settings on one of course would be the drive hand with how it is currently set and the option to change this.

If you change anything, or re load a previously saved page and then write it back to the Body control, the entire 500 bytes required to fully program an ECU are created from scratch from the HTML pages contents.

This feature provides for fairly care free type experimentation as it is a doddle to return any ECU to as was as long as you saved the origional contents first

A customer might potentially come unstuck if they used a Faultmate to change a setting in an ECU that was then later re coded with a dealers T4/IDS system, however we have provided a utility module in our system into which you can enter either an existing ZCS and get a decoded output for edit you can then modify and use to get back to the updated ZCS that can be entered into the EC's that store it. You can even use this to generate a ZCS code from scratch by setting up the vehicle specification.

The later CAN bus systems differ only in that instead of storing settings data in each ECU, they directly refer to a unique per vehicle block of data held in one ECU (backups are in others but the IDS also has this data held on record by VIN) called the CCF. (Car Configuration File) which is then shared in real time over the CAN BUS. This is a massive block of data with many hundreds of values that even crosses vehicle makes and models and in the case of the later Range Rovers that still have some Legacy BMW systems like the Body control, the LCS is actually incorporated inside the CCF as was.

The T4/IDS then uses and refers to this CCF data pretty much as it did with the LCS, And the Faultmate pretty much deals with this CCF block of data as it did with the settings block of any given ECU. So the CCF is fully decoded by Faultmate into a HTML page showing all its individual values and what they do and can be saved as before, experimented with, restored and so on.

It is possible to change a few basic settings in the CCF using an IDS system, but nothing of much real use or value.

As you note, a faultmate system, especially in non Vin locked mode may well cost a bit more than others may seem to, but ultimately there is a bloody good reason for this, as i have hopefully explained, and only a small difference in initial investment will determine if you become just another dealer or a wiggs. 2003 4.4 HSE

That's a great explanation, thanks!

I've had my D3 tweaked by geoff. (Disc3 Forum member) who like wiggs also has a MSV-2 Faultmate and offers forum members a pay as you go service. It was very impressive as to (a) the scope of what could be read and changed and (b)_ how seemingly straightforward it all seemed. Graham

____
Gone: 10MY L320 RR Sport HSE, Ipanema Sand
Gone: 20MY Jaguar iPace HSE, Silicon Silver
Gone: 17MY RR Evoque SE Tech, Loire Blue
Gone: 08MY Discovery 3 XS, Stornoway Grey
Gone: 07MY FFRR TDV8 Vogue, Stornoway Grey

Does anyone else think a Forum owned non-VIN MSV-2 might be of use?

Anyone wanting use of it could contribute and would have free access and those who didn't could "pay as you go"?

I guess we would need a trustee responsilble for the distribution etc?

Just a thought................ Got - 2017 SDV8 Autobiography in Loire Blue
Had- 2008 TDV8 Vogue SE in Java black
Had - 2007 S/C in Stornoway Grey