Just read this article on the BBC News site...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35480736

WTF!!!

It's a recipe for total disaster. No white lines down the centre of the road means that all head on and side swipe collisions will be dealt with by the insurance companies as 'half and half' claims, allowing the insurance companies to get the full excess from both drivers, thus reducing their overall costs, not to mention that they can put up both drivers' insurances to boot.

And... what about all these new cars with 'lane avoidance' technology?

So, what's your thoughts?

Think this will cause more accidents , even just missed oncoming drivers on roads with white lines as they sometimes dont know the width or where the line is ...

They is nuts

They say "In most cases we've noticed some positive impacts"

like this?

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

I think it's complete piffle.

The powers that be need to get this anti-speed business out of their heads, because in very few cases is speed the outright cause of accidents - it's negligence or incompetence. The current attitude purveyed is totally wrong and, as usual, is laying blame at easy political targets. So long as something is seen to be done, it doesn't matter to them if it works; everything is merely representitive of intent in the political, and democratic, world.

Telling people that speed is the source of all evil and banging on about how dangerous the roads are leads to unconfident drivers, and an increase in congestion everywhere as people become more and more reluctant to use the accelerator pedal, which can only lead to more accidents. Heck, we've even had leaflets saying we should accelerate more slowly to save fuel which is simply not true, and if we drive slowly we'll arrive at our destination "more relaxed" - um, no, we'd be well late!

Then there's money wasted on so-called safety improvements - one nearby example that was desribed as such consisted of putting red bits on the road. They paint rumble strips on the approches to some roundabouts that increase suspension wear, and can only serve to reduce available grip should emergency braking be required, they replace perfectly good signs with new ones in case someone hits the post and meanwhile, our road surfaces a falling to bits and the new ones are substandard to the point of ridicule, and no-one is held to account because local government is not truly accountable.

The focus needs to be shifted to actually making roads, as I would describe as, "as they supposed to be" - clear juctions, clear and correct markings, a good road surface and confident drivers without a false sense of security that they are safe because they are going slowly. We need drivers to get used to fending for themselves, we need to let people get on with it, and we need to accept that accidents will always happen.

 Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

^^Here ,here!

The biggest cause of accidents on the road is other twits

But what you were saying about the state of the roads is to true, they have finally finished a dual carriageway extension to junction 13 from Milton Keynes, or at least that was what the sign said......... December 2013...... Improvements to Dual Carriageway to Junction 13, 53 Weeks....... they were still p155ing about with it during the Rugby World Cup, November 2015 And as for the nice new smooth surface... recon a cobbled street is smoother And they've found it necessary to lower the speed, it was unrestricted and now it's 50 , but I suppose that's to ensure that you remain in proper control whilst riding the roller coaster And did it go to Junction 13? nope, still over 2 miles short, so you still get stuck behind HGV's doing 40.

While I think of it, which Knob thought that slowing HGV's to 40 on roads that are difficult to overtake on was a safety thing? From what I can see it just makes all the accidents waiting to happen overtake at the worst possible places, with little or no room. And they call it progress

The biggest problem is the people in power don't drive......some are too stupid.......some have realised that they might have overdone it with the cameras.... and all can claim for taxi's or drivers........... Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

There are a truly shocking number of examples around here of roads in a poor state, or where money has been wasted. One example is here; the council have now kerbed this bit of road:

Click image to enlarge

I know why they miss all the pot holes....... they repair them at night......... towards the end of the night the candle has burnt to the wick so they can't see and sod off home Just leaving the poor chap to sign for a black road in the middle of the night with no light What can go wrong?????????? Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

I think it's a good idea , but too little too late ...

Modern cars are just so damn good , that they could lull you into a false sense of security .
For example , driving 80mph in a 1956 beetle takes all your concentration yet driving 80mph in the most basic modern car is so very easy .
(I drive at 80 every morning on my commute , even in a modern carrera with bucket seats and track-orientated tires it's easy and when I get to take the rangerover it's actually relaxing)
My point is , a lot of the generation that spend huge parts of their day online or on social media or texting etc have learnt to drive in modern cars , then buy a similar car to what they learnt in . A lot of then buy new due to finance and insurance deals given by dealers .
These so called "disposable cars" are actually pretty good !!!!

So , a generation not used to really concentrating at all are driving cars that are really easy to drive results in a whole lot of drivers on the road that haven't so much been "lulled into a false sense of security" , but have never had a sense of insecurity .

The removal of white lines SHOULD make most drivers concentrate on their driving more , but for some it will make no difference at all as they don't see the white lines anyway

My closing arguement :
Put most drivers on a twisty narrow country lane with white lines , and they'll by default concentrate more than when driving on a straight city road or motorway with no white lines .....

The only reason for removing the white lines, that I can see, is the saving in not having to repaint them...... If they go ahead with this I wonder just how lines will be removed. as opposed to how many that will not be repainted.... It's a cost saving exercise, to that we the Motorist can donate even more of the Road Repair tax in to the coffers of the Government, to prop up what ever stupid love a criminal and send them on a 5 star holiday scheme that's popular this week  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

i pay £505 car tax per year so i want my lines re-painted thank you.....  ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
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I don't doubt that the principle has an effect, but I do have doubts as to the real world magnitude. Aside from that, it is notwithstanding the world of legal disputes it would open up, and the field day insurers would have. Are we now to have a sign for every section to indicate where you are and aren't permitted to overtake? What about the dash spacing that indicates hazards? Will we still have cat's eyes; if no then that becomes pretty poor situation at night, and if yes, then people will simply treat them as the lines anyway?

Of course all this is based on more major roads; when it comes to minor roads I don't consider a lack of white lines at all unusual but that's also where there's less traffic and fewer accidents. Core situation; where the principle works, it's unsuitable for use, and where it can be used, it serves no function.

Quote:

My point is , a lot of the generation that spend huge parts of their day online or on social media or texting etc have learnt to drive in modern cars , then buy a similar car to what they learnt in . A lot of then buy new due to finance and insurance deals given by dealers .
These so called "disposable cars" are actually pretty good !!!!

So , a generation not used to really concentrating at all are driving cars that are really easy to drive results in a whole lot of drivers on the road that haven't so much been "lulled into a false sense of security" , but have never had a sense of insecurity .

You're not wrong here, and that's exactly why we need to get shot of the sense that enthusiastic driving is enemy number one (I don't know what it's like across the pond in that respect?). People need to be interested in driving again and we need to say no to the nanny state of black boxes and eco-crap. Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

I was lead to believe that the lack of white lines on a road indicated that it was under 12 feet in width, and as such 2 cars could not pass each other without extreme caution... no white lines, go slow and be prepared to jump in the hedge.

But what will happen if they do away with the white lines on roads that 16 foot + wide ? Surely the spotty inexperienced drivers will get used to flying along at 60 with no passing difficulties, and then they will get to a narrow bit..... at the same time as another get s to the same bit from the other way

All that it will do is increase the rural accident rates, which will include more pedestrians, horses, and everything else that you find on the road in the country side. And then to compensate they will introduce a 20 mph limit in the country, which will slow all the roads up and make everyone even more likely to overtake at the wrong place, and the endless cycle of crashes and speed reduction will go on....... until every one will need a chap with a red flag to walk in front of their car to warn other users of their presence....... Oh hang on a minute, I think we've done that one already  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Lost for Words wrote:

You're not wrong here, and that's exactly why we need to get shot of the sense that enthusiastic driving is enemy number one (I don't know what it's like across the pond in that respect?). People need to be interested in driving again and we need to say no to the nanny state of black boxes and eco-crap.

I think every state is different , but my main experience is in Southern California .
I'm happy to live in an area with car culture so engrained in its history and everyday life .
I'm not so happy about the amount of traffic on the roads though

There is a percentage of "bad" drivers all over the world , so the more traffic there is the more bad drivers there are .

The rules on new drivers here are somewhat different than they were the last time I was in the uk ...
Driving permit at 15 , and a few hours driving with a parent gets you a license .
I'm not sure on the details , but there are curfews on new drivers and restrictions on driving with other teenagers in the car .
The legal alcohol limits are lower too .
Rules put in place due to statistics on new drivers having accidents with a car full of their friends .
I see a lot of young drivers on the road , driving solo and sensibly .
I also see a lot of drivers on the road driving fast distracted .

I had to take the California theory and practical as my uk license didn't transfer over .
The theory was easy as the rules are pretty much the same , and the practical was 5-10 minutes .
I took it in my p38 and when it came to the "can you reverse in a strait line" part the examiner noticed my mirrors do the "reverse dip" and wasn't watching me as she was talking about that feature that she'd never seen before


I'm rambling

Anyway , there are a lot of car clubs over here that partake in Motorsport , and there is something to do every weekend .
From racing on the disused marine base close to my house to drag racing .
More or less all of the clubs give up their time each year to do trading classes for new drivers .
I think THAT is awesome .
The theory being , the more you concentrate the better you'll drive .
(Bikers have more road awareness than drivers . Fact . Their lives depend on it)
The "racing" courses show that even when concentrating to the fullest , the slightest wrong input can have drastic consequences .
They also teach the limits of the car (and driver's ability) , they also teach how these limits are drastically reduced under certain circumstances and how easily it is to spin a car at say 30mph .

I'm a firm believer that low speed experience on a track is better than any compulsory motorway driving program .
Driving straight on a motorway just teaches people that driving fast is easy ......

All sounds pretty sensible to me.

There's just the sense over here that if you go fast, you will have an accident and destroy the planet, and worse still, if you go slowly you will be entirely immune from the possibility. There's nothing to inspire confidence in drivers, and not just young ones. It's all very negative, negative, negative, "the roads are very dangerous you know" etc. There's no-one saying "hey, actually we do have some of the safest roads in the world".

Some people will never drive at the speed limit, and think this makes them good drivers. It's just this way that bad driving is being simplified into "speed" and the suggestion that a black box or iPhone is capable of telling perfectly if someone is a "safer driver", with real world consequences on insurance premiums...and journey times. Some people just don't even overtake, ever; most days, I see people driving behind a very slow car or lorry (doing say 40) on the Warminster bypass and they do not overtake even though there is a lane to do so! They just aren't competent or confident. During recent works it was apparently deemed necessary to have, as well as traffic lights, a convoy vehicle to escort traffic around the opposite side of a roundabout to where anyone was working - and we wonder why no-one feels capable anymore?

I could never condone any really stupid behaviour, but I do have respect for the teenage yobs that do go a bit fast, because they actually are learning the limits of their vehicle, learning to concentrate. They're going fast enough to feel the dynamics of the situation which so many don't understand. It would be nice if we could provide a safe way for new drivers to do so, but the thought of teaching people to drive at any speed on a track would probably be poo-pooed as above, because it's the easy, cheaper option to do so.

The thing that is really sad, is that we do have places on our roads where there are real safety issues, bad junctions and incorrect road markings etc., and all too often it takes at least one loss of life before anything is done about them. While they're thinking of new politically-motivated schemes to be seen to care, the real issues are ignored for years on end. Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

D.d.d.d.d don't-don't do it!

D.d.d.d.d don't-dont do it!

White lines.......