I had 2 problems with Craig:

1. occurred 2 years ago when i bought a set of 21 inch L405 wheels from him, they had the american TPMS on it with the wrong frequencies - when i complained about that - was the answer - just take the old one from your old wheels (i needed the old wheels for my winter tyres) - i had to spend another 500.-- pounds for the correct system

2. was just a few days ago - i asked him to deliver me the 22 inch wheels with winter tyres and he said that the M+S tyres on the wheels are winter tyres so i agreed to buy them - except the M+S wheels where summer tyres (you get fines and no insurance cover in wintertime in the Fatherland) - M+S wheels need to have the little snowflake sign to be REAL winter tyres - i confronted him again with this and he said: that was the deal - i had to spend another 800.-- pounds now for winter tyres.

Only after i made it public in the forum - he was like send the wheels back to me - would have cost me another 250.-- pounds for the transport.....

You guys can't imagine how much i am disappointed (these are really nice words). All my spelling errorz are belong to me!

2023 FFRR L460
2021 AM new Vantage

Last edited by XXXAngelXXX on 25th Nov 2015 1:00pm. Edited 1 time in total

I know your called Frank, I know you have had a lot of posts on here; but I don't you, I don't have an opinion on you personally and I don't have one of Craig either so please treat this with an open mind......what are you gaining by constantly re-posting the same complaint but in different ways?

Pick up a telephone, use the inbox....

 Is this where I put the car details and a bit about myself ?........

I tried this - first he didn't even respond to my PMs - then when i have been going public and only then he responded in very angry matter that i can send my wheels back to him and he will refund me - THAT would make me lose another 250.-- pounds for the transport.

btw his several phone numbers DON'T work !  All my spelling errorz are belong to me!

2023 FFRR L460
2021 AM new Vantage

£500 for 4 TMPS valves

Winter tyres are rare in the UK - and there is certainly no manufacturer that would fit them as standard - so any 'take off' wheels would not be fitted with them. Not the you would necessarily have known that - but assumptions is where most deals go wrong.
I can understand the confusion as some countries seem to accept M+S, whilst others insist on designated Winter tyres.
If you have it in writing that they were winter, then you have a case - if it simply said M+S then I would say not.

Also, I'm surprised that you didn't spot the problem straight away - a winter tread is fairly distinctive in the way the tread is cut and it says Winter in big letters on the side as well as the mountain logo thing.

I guess it could have been worse, at least you will need the summer tyres at some point so not a complete waste and probably helped protect the wheels during shipping

I once bought a set of 'take off' wheels & tyres (from someone else) - and then found that each tyre, whilst brand new, had a puncture repair - I was basically told that as they were to approved standards it was tough luck.

I just re-read the For Sale post and can see the confusion on both sides - not listed as Winters, visible in the photos as not winter tread, but you specified you needed winters - so I guess it's down to whether you were told they were winters - and not just M+S - you asked the right question to which only Yes or No should have been acceptable answers

If it helps - I think the price was good - I bought these wheels & the guy wouldn't even ship them - I had to go & collect. They are not 100% perfect, a couple of small marks.

I bought just the rims as I knew no-one in the UK would be selling rims with Winters already fitted

£500 for 4 TMPS valves incl. the fitting at the local dealer because of some guy that forgot to tell me that i can use them only on an US Range Rover

as for the winter tyres - i was clear enough - i have had no use for wheels with summer tyres !

I'm surprised you didn't specify European TPMS

Your PM says you'd 'prefer' winter tyres - I would have said 'need' - what did the reply say ?

I can understand your frustration, but seems like a genuine misunderstanding on both sides to me.


BTW - I have never dealt with Craig - just don't like to see 2 valued members falling out

I don't have any dog in this fight. I haven't dealt with either party.

However, I would point out that UK defamation laws are strict and (as I understand it) the responsibility falls on both the author (Angel) and the publisher (the website).

The mods are therefore between a rock and a hard place. They can't know whether the allegations are true or not (not doubting Angel but there are always two sides to every story - or at least two perspectives) - and truth is the only defence to libel. However, if they remove the post then the OP and other users complain. It is a bit unfair on the mods to fight this type of battle in public on the forum for which they take responsibility, IMHO.

Better (IMHO) to deal with it privately or, if you feel strongly, through the courts. Privately could include using PM to other forum members to flag your experiences.

I didn't say it was your fault I'd have been more upset about the TPMS on your first deal and couldn't have resisted making the point on every email about the right valves this time

Winter tyres are very poorly understood in the UK - it's us who are the dumb hillbillies where they are concerned, so it does need to be super explicit - IMHO this was a genuine misunderstanding / assumption on both sides

You only need to search this forum to see the number of people who think M+S = Winter

It's a shame that you couldn't figure out an amicable solution.

Legally you can only go with the evidence - and you 'prefer' Winter & need M+S - and you got M+S - which technically would be OK....

Last edited by Alistair on 25th Nov 2015 2:34pm. Edited 1 time in total

Dear Emperor Mong - whoever you are.....

If you don't like it - simply don't read it -and move on

I tried to contact Craig by phone and by PM - i couldn't solve my probs with him - he was hiding like Patrick-Star under a stone (I hope you are familiar with Sponge Bob).

As for the defamation - my complete office just had a big laugh !!!!!!



Really a good one  All my spelling errorz are belong to me!

2023 FFRR L460
2021 AM new Vantage

Emperor Mong wrote:

Better (IMHO) to deal with it if you feel strongly, through the courts.

Area you kidding me ? Going to court for a 500 pounds difference ? Germany vs England - i zend zhe Luftwaffe ?

Even in Germany under 5000 pounds i would not go to court ! It is a waste of time and nerves.  All my spelling errorz are belong to me!

2023 FFRR L460
2021 AM new Vantage

My post was not about liking it or not liking it. It was asking you to consider the difficult position of the mods. Which I note you chose to ignore.

You (and your office) may choose to laugh at British libel laws. They are indeed very poorly adapted to the internet age. But they are a risk for this website, whether you laugh at the concept or not. Read up on Godfrey versus Demon. In the UK, if someone thinks that what you wrote about them is either defamatory or damaging, the onus will be entirely on you to prove that your comments are true in court. In other words, if you make the claim, you've got to prove it. Anyone who publishes or distributes the allegations are also liable - so that includes the website.

I have no idea what went on and who is in the right or the wrong. I don't really care to be honest. But I do rather like this website. I think it is a good place to get information. Your actions may be putting it at risk (remember, the only defence is that your allegations are 100% true and have no exaggeration or omissions). If you think that is funny or should be ignored, then you clearly don't value this website as highly as I do.

XXXAngelXXX wrote:

Emperor Mong wrote:

Better (IMHO) to deal with it if you feel strongly, through the courts.

Area you kidding me ? Going to court for a 500 pounds difference ? Germany vs England - i zend zhe Luftwaffe ?

Even in Germany under 5000 pounds i would not go to court ! It is a waste of time and nerves.

Now you got me - so if our little mechanic wants to take me to court - i am pleased to come - my safe IS FULL - i will do this then JUST for fun !

Some things i don't like is injustice and ppl who like to profit about others!

And now don't bother me with you boring moral blabla  All my spelling errorz are belong to me!

2023 FFRR L460
2021 AM new Vantage