Help - I'm looking for advice please,

L322 4.4 V8 (2004)

My gearbox oil & filter was changed about 4 weeks ago (by a garage that should know what they're doing). Prior to it being done I had the 'cooling stratergy' whilst towing and also the occasional 'rumble'. I myself have also recently changed radiator and oil cooler and since then no more 'cooling stratergy '. However the rumble has returned and I have now found out they used Dexron 3 instead of LT71141 and they insist it is correct. All that I read on these forums say LT71141.

Has this caused irreversible damage? Can I just change to the correct ATF by gradual replacement? How do I prove they are wrong? And more to the point - Can I safely drive home on Saturday 180 miles with my caravan?

Thanks in advance  Current: 2004 Vogue 4.4 V8 - 2004 Discovery 2
Previous: 2000 P38 DHSE - 1995 P38 DT Man - 1990 3.9 SE Classic, 1980 3.5 Classic 2dr

Just to help you sleep at night....

This is a copy and paste from Meyle.com (We stock their transmission service kits, the kit for the ZF5HP24 box contains their part number 0140192300 - this is what is says on their tech data..... (it covers Dexron 3 and that BMW spec)

Parts 014 019 2300
Dealer part number 014 019 2300
Specification BMW ETL 7045 E, Specification BMW LT-71141, Specification BMW LA-2634, Specification ZF TE-ML 11B, 14C, Specification ZF TE-ML 17C, 02F, Specification ZF TE-ML 04D, 14B, Specification VW G 055 025, Specification VW G 052 990, Specification VW G 052 162, Specification VW G 050 160, Specification MB 236.11, Specification MB 236.10, Specification MB 236.9, Specification MB 236.6, Specification MB 235.71, Specification MAN 339 Type V2/Z3, Specification MAN 339 Type V1/Z2, Specification Ford M2C922-A1, Specification Ford M2C202-B, Specification Ford M2C195-A, Specification Ford WSS-M2C938-A, Specification Ford WSS-M2C924-A, Specification Ford Mercon, MerconV, Specification Chrysler ATF+3/+4, Specification Nissan Matic-D/J/K, Specification Allision TES 389, Specification Allision TES 295, Specification Allision C-4, Specification AISIN JWS 3314, Specification AISIN JWS 3309, Specification ATF Dexron III H, Red, Capacity 1 l Paul Redding
+44 (0)23 8052 2760
paul@advancedfactors.co.uk

Get the Dex3 out and put the proper stuff in. They are not the same. I looked at this when replacing fluid in my RR, and bought the proper stuff as a result of searching. here is a good summary from a thread in piston heads where someone has asked a similar question:

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The following reply is from a trade oil stockist www.northwiltslubricants.co.uk This seems to have been the most comprehensive and full reply I have had so far :

Thanks for your enquiry concerning the use of the correct lubricant for the ZF 5HP24 Auto transmission.
As always, owners will give conflicting advice as to the use of the lubricants in search of an alternative to what the manufacturer stipulates usually based on cost!!.
Having checked the technical manual for this particular box, Jaguar stipulate the Esso LT71141 - Why?
Because during the boxes development stage, jaguar and ZF would have looked at readily available products to do the job (ie Dexron II, Dexron III etc) before they commissioned ESSO to formulate the LT71141. On "sealed for life" gearboxes, the service fill of oil MUST be capable of providing all the necessary operating requirements for both the Flywheel and the Box, Cold and Hot operating conditions etc for the life of that Box ( 100,000 miles). It would be fair to say that ANY ATF Fluid would in part fulfill that requirement but would be very limited ie clutch and stator slip, rapid gear wear would be evident in a short period of time as where the LT71141 is a proven product for 100,000 miles - tried and tested by Jaguar.
It may cost a few pounds more per litre than something like Castrol TQ Dexron III but you would have the peace of mind that you have used the correct product to do the job.


Just to offer some comparisons here are the Technical Specs for the LT71141 and the DIII

Test -- Dexron III LT71141
Kinematic viscosity at 100C -- 8.1 cst -- 7.3 cst
Kinematic viscosity at 40C -- 37 cst -- 36.8cst
Viscosity Index -- 204 -- 168



The important factor here is the Viscosity Index which, if too high will cause slip and where a stator/box required a certain amount of friction to operate then this would be a factor.
Also there is a test called the FZG 4ball Wear test, which for the LT71141 is 12 but for the DIII is unknown!!

Hope this offers some assistance

Regards
Barry ( North Wilts Lubricants) V8 or else ...

Oh, and further down the same thread ... a comment from ZF themselves...

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Although I have decided to go back to Manufacturers recommended OE spec oil, I still find it so odd that so many specialists(like TES Transmissions of Westbury) and independents (Bill Knight, Andover) would recommend DexronIII confused

To maybe give a final difinitive piece of information on this, I have today, finally received an official reply from ZF GB. Whilst it is no surprise that they advise using the Esso LT71141 oil for the 4.0XK8 5HP24 G'box, I think it is worth reading their reasoning behind it.

Posted here for all to read:

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the correct grade of oil for the ZF 5HP24 automatic transmission as used in the Jaguar application. My reply is based solely on the design and technical requirements of the 5HP24. Cost of the oil is not an influencing factor, as you will appreciate; ZF also has to purchase the oil from Esso.

The design specification of the 5HP24 requires the use of Esso LT 71141 and is filled for life. There is no alternative or equivalent oil, Esso is the only supplier of LT 71141. Under normal operation, the oil is changed after 10 years or 100, 000 mls.

The transmission was not designed to run on Dexron III and if installed you run the risk of premature failure. The transmission is equipped with a sophisticated torque converter lockup control (TCC) system and the correct oil specification is critical to its function and operation. One of the main functions of the oil is to provide the correct coefficient of friction and cooling of the torque converter lockup lining during regulated slip conditions. The longevity of the lockup lining would be adversely affected by the use of Dexron III and in most cases deterioration in shift quality and lockup engagement is also experienced.

I hope these points’ help you make the correct decision to use Esso LT 71141 which will continue protect the longevity of your transmission. The use of alternative oils can only be considered as false economy.

ZF Great Britain Ltd
info.zfgb@zf.com

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Wow! Thanks Fisha,

The trouble is there is so much conflicting info out there it's hard to know what to do and more importantly who to trust. I think I'll buy the correct oil and ask my usual garage to do the job. (Mind you I'll have a go at the garage that did the job in the first place as they've done it wrong)

I've found that using the steptronic I can bypass the judder so I'll be going home that way. 180 miles on tenterhooks!! Current: 2004 Vogue 4.4 V8 - 2004 Discovery 2
Previous: 2000 P38 DHSE - 1995 P38 DT Man - 1990 3.9 SE Classic, 1980 3.5 Classic 2dr

Just as an aside there is a box used in some PSA vehicles that uses this fluid as well
Pita but the oil is worth it if it's last 10years already its done good! FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
Mantec Sump Guard, Rigid Load liner, MY10 BT upgrade.