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montyjohn



Member Since: 07 Feb 2023
Location: London
Posts: 19

United Kingdom 
Is compressed home natural gas a viable alternative to LPG

Is compressed home natural gas a viable alternative to LPG?

Since LPG filling stations are fast closing, breaking and running dry is compressed house natural gas an alternative?

I believe on the legal side you can declare your mileage and pay the tax.

I'm not sure what the pressure is of home gas on tap, I think it varies significantly, but if you can get it into your tank, will it run? What changes to the system, if any would you need to make?
What sort of mileage could you expect from a 100L tank at typical pressures of home gas assuming the above is possible?

I believe LPG is 7 KWh per litre, so at current home gas prices of 10p per KWh that could be 70p for an equivalent litre of home gas.

I suspect the issue is it would need to be compressed to that of LPG (320 psi) which isn't practical or probably legal at home. Unless somebody knows otherwise. 2000 P38 4.0 HSE auto - RHD - just needs a little love.

Post #658730 7th Mar 2023 10:40am
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SamThomas



Member Since: 12 Nov 2021
Location: South East
Posts: 293

United Kingdom 2003 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Baltic Blue

Anything combustible will work to a certain extent in an ICE - the trick is to get it into the right place under the right condition to explode.

LPG is stored in a liquified form under pressure - natural gas is just that - a gas.

Bodyshop some time ago ran some of their trucks using CNG (compressed natural gas as do some other companies presently. However, in a diesel they still need to use a little diesel to ignite the gas (something like 5 or 10%).

IMHO it's entirely possible but it depends on the calorific value of CNG to LPG.

Many years ago I knew a guy who transferred the contents of propane cylinders to his LPG tank using a high pressure pump but not entirely sure of the legality/safety of what he was doing.

Post #658736 7th Mar 2023 11:16am
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montyjohn



Member Since: 07 Feb 2023
Location: London
Posts: 19

United Kingdom 

Quote:
IMHO it's entirely possible but it depends on the calorific value of CNG to LPG.


Just did a little googling, apparently Natural Gas (mainly methane) contains 2.5x less energy per volume (I assume at the same pressure) when compared to Propane. Apparently LPG is a mix of Propane, Butane and isobutane which I believe are all similar.

So on that basis I would say using natural gas, even if you could compress it at home is a non starter. 2000 P38 4.0 HSE auto - RHD - just needs a little love.

Post #658740 7th Mar 2023 11:38am
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Ajmngn



Member Since: 25 May 2021
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 185

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Santorini Black

I don’t think compressed natural gas need be a viable alternative. I understand that, whilst LPG is being phased out in vehicle fuel stations due to low demand, LPG as a fuel source in the UK is not.

Acknowledging the issue that comes under the category of the ‘cost of installation’ of large LPG storage tanks suitable for domestic use that can be installed in a garden. Filling those would be done by a visiting truck with a larger tank on board. Therefore, assuming a tank is installed at home and one can have that refilled by a local supplier for reasonable cost (which I contend are both very reasonable assumptions) then is it possible to transfer the LPG fuel from a static tank to the vehicle safely, and without specialist equipment? Again, I assume yes as the fuel will already be under pressure.

A very quick google throws up home solutions such as this https://www.flogas.co.uk/home/lpg-solutions

Maybe food for thought? I’d also add that, despite the lessening use of LPG for vehicles (which is crazy), that I’d argue we won’t see a huge decrease in LPG for domestic use in the medium term.

If your LPG vehicle rarely undertakes long journeys then a domestic tank might well be a very sensible solution and cheaper over time. I think some companies will even install a tank for free (or a much reduced cost) if they have a contract to supply it thereafter and would remain the owner of the tank throughout. Plus, if one ventures further afield, just use petrol for that infrequent journey and fill up with LPG if you can. Seems sensible to me…thoughts? Andy

2010 4.4TDV8 Vogue SE in Santorini Black with Ivory interior
2017 Audi SQ5 3.0 V6T Quattro in Volcano Red
2001 Audi Allroad 2.5 TDI manual with low-range in Highland Green. Currently SORN whilst undergoing some serious restoration!

Post #658750 7th Mar 2023 12:46pm
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fisha



Member Since: 25 Sep 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1338

2015 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Aruba

Many years ago when I had my LPG rangies on the go, I remember there being a long discussion on one of the LR forums whether it would be feasible to have your own LPG tank to fuel vehicles, and I think the consensus was no, primarily because of not be being able to get a large storage tank from the suppliers, and the cost of the fuel being not that much of a saving over the pump price.

Home heating was simple, but vehicle fuel was a different ask of the suppliers which they were reluctant to entertain.

Admittedly that was probably at least 10 years ago now. V8 or else ...

Post #658759 7th Mar 2023 1:17pm
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dingg1



Member Since: 29 Jun 2013
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 1334

2007 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.2 SC V8 Stornoway Grey

Cng is used on some buses.

No markwt for private use yet, lpg still readily available here and lots of cars on it, including mine, still no issues after almost 10 years... Cool

Post #658760 7th Mar 2023 1:39pm
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